Author Topic: Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.  (Read 7842 times)

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Offline _Zaphod_

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Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.
« on: November 19, 2013, 07:25:04 AM »
Fact: Crazy Kong was based off of dkongjpo roms. Hence, the ladder cheat, the barrel skip cheat, the 1234 level order, and "HOW HIGH CAN YOU TRY".  these don't count as differences.

Actual differences.

1) there seems to be a smaller sprite limit on the crazy kong boardset. this affects the following.

a) Number of barrels on barrel screen is limited to 4, plus the fireballs (i think no more than two).  Makes game easier
b) number of elevator platforms limited to 3 on elevators screen, and second fireball is missing.  Number of simultaneous springs limited to two. Makes game easier, but the elevator limit can trip you up.

2) the modified kong sprite can't actually kill you.  this makes rivet screen easier.

3) crazy kongs animations are not properly synched. makes barrel's screen harder because you can't watch kong to see when it's safe to climb the ladder under him.

4) conveyor belt gets SUPER fast on factory. Makes level HARDER

5) glitch can cause all cement pans to stop appearing. makes level easier.

6) glitch lets you put down hammer on factory level. when put down it still retains it's smashing properties.  Good for point pressing.

and, on part II only

7) ends of girders on barrel screen chopped off, making top hammer much harder to grab.

8) holes on barrel screen on lvl 2+

and in the cosmetic department

9) missing sounds and music

10) awesome new sounds and music. "WAKEUP!"

11)  GIVE UP! on part ii (but that crazy kong, he never does give up, does he. he must know about the kill screen :) )

12) hammers offset left of where they really are. probably the most annoying bug, with the animation issue a close second.

13) bug that makes both hammers vanish from sight sometimes after one is used. (but it's still there to grab, fortunately)

14) interesting colors. :)

15) foxfires don't exist, only fireballs.

16) various stupid graphical glitches. the worst of which is the lack of king climbing frames that DON'T hold Pauline.  In part 2 this is worked around by having her vanish the instant he starts climbing.

Have i missed anything?

BTW i would like to see a bugfixed version of crazy kong, if anyone is insane enough to try. Surely we can do better then the bootleggers? :) ideally, here's what would be fixed.

1) cclimber bigsprite changed back into normal kong, and given proper barrel chucking and chest beating animations. failing that, give the bigsprite proper animations, and make it synch properly in factory screen.
2) make smashed barrel sprites vanish instead of stick around until they get reused.
3) hammer offsets corrected
4) 1 pixel off vertical sprite offsets corrected
5) missing kong animation frames restored, so he actually picks up Pauline instead of runs up the ladders already carrying her.  if this is impossible, part IIs workaround is pretty good.
6) Jumpman death tumbling animation lengthened to synch to new music. should stop on third to last note.
7) proper rivets on rivet stage
8) restoration of original sprite limit, to allow for full number of barrels, fireballs, and springs on all screens. current limit appears to six, plus jumpman and hammers.
9) possibly restoration of firefoxes.

What should be left as is

1) level colors. (but maybe improve the fireballs?)
2) existing music and sounds. especially the intermission tunes.  The level complete tune is iconic, and MUST stay.
3) barrel board skip
4) ladder cheat
5) kill screen.  the presence of the kill screen forces you to point press instead of marathon. therefore, it improves gameplay.
6) 3 elevator limit.
7) crazy fast conveyors.
8) hammer put down glitch.

silly idea?

Offline f_symbols

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Re: Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2013, 07:37:02 AM »
This is a great thread.  Welcome to the forums  :)

I believe ck2 (falcon) was licensed by Nintendo for release in the european market, so it is not technically a bootleg, contrary to popular belief.  I have yet to delve into the world of CK, but I could potentially see the demand for an updated version of the game; first 1m+ game of ck? This may even be our chance to pull the "great tudose" out of retirement; got em? Let's hope so...
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Offline ChrisP

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Re: Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2013, 11:14:41 AM »
"Bugfixing" Crazy Kong would be like taking a dump on the Mona Lisa.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Crazy Kong!
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Offline _Zaphod_

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Re: Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2013, 11:17:06 AM »
It was a bootleg that became an un-bootleg.  Yes, it DID get licensed for areas where nintendo was not selling their original board, but i'm pretty sure it was not developed originally with their permission.

Like many other bootlegs of the day, the game was ported to inferior/different hardware (witness all those scramble hardware bootlegs, including one version of crazy kong).  These bits of cleverness are a big part of arcade history.

The actual reason for the 300k difference is the changed level order, giving 150M height on level 5 and greater.  Japanese romsets of DK are almost as low scoring (but you can point press a bit better on the barrels i think).  The game was originally designed to play all 4 levels every screen, and was modified for US, for some strange reason.  Same for donkey Kong Jr. as well.

Offline _Zaphod_

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Re: Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2013, 11:25:54 AM »
"Bugfixing" Crazy Kong would be like taking a dump on the Mona Lisa.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Crazy Kong!

Objectively, there are at least two major faults.

1) animation sync issues on barrel level. you are denied information you should have when trying to make it to the girder below kong. Also, shooting barrels out his ass just looks amateurish. :)
2) large visible offset on hammer position, which can cause you to miss your jump for a hammer that it looks like you should have grabbed.

Most of the other stuff is clear hardware compromise issues


Offline lakeman421

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Re: Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2013, 01:44:33 PM »
CK is great I would never make any changes to it
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Offline JNugent

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Re: Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2014, 04:51:41 AM »
To the OP, as to #13, I noticed something on the barrel boards.  If I skip the bottom hammer, then get the top hammer, after the top hammer runs out, the bottom hammer disappears.  It is, however, still there, much like what happens on the rivet boards.  I don't know if anyone else had ever noticed this, since most skip the top hammer on the barrels.  There is no benefit to knowing this, except to heighten one's knowledge of CK glitches.  Love it?

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Offline danman123456

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Re: Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2014, 08:40:46 AM »
I believe it was modified for the US because it was too easy to play going 1-2-3-4. Those first few PF boards on the JP version are just stupid simple. The arcade was all about getting people to WANT to play a game but also not letting them play forever. Needed that quarter churn. Hence why I truly believe lvl 2,3,4 barrel boards and the lvl 4 elevators where implemented. Get all the scrubs off the game after say 5-10 minutes. :D

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Offline marinomitch13

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Re: Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2014, 02:06:21 PM »
To the OP, as to #13, I noticed something on the barrel boards.  If I skip the bottom hammer, then get the top hammer, after the top hammer runs out, the bottom hammer disappears.  It is, however, still there, much like what happens on the rivet boards.  I don't know if anyone else had ever noticed this, since most skip the top hammer on the barrels.  There is no benefit to knowing this, except to heighten one's knowledge of CK glitches.  Love it?

Yer, I love it! I love knowing these more subtle types of quirks in games.
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Offline p2dose

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Re: Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2014, 03:53:16 PM »
in crazy kong part II there is a wild barrel that appears on the barrel board for only a handful of frames. similar to a lightning strike. it typically happens on the left side of the screen and CAN kill you. most people dont even notice it as it happens so fast. dean and i have both witnessed this lightning barrel and i have been killed by it before on more than one occasion

Offline JCHarrist

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Re: Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2014, 04:00:07 PM »
in crazy kong part II there is a wild barrel that appears on the barrel board for only a handful of frames. similar to a lightning strike. it typically happens on the left side of the screen and CAN kill you. most people dont even notice it as it happens so fast. dean and i have both witnessed this lightning barrel and i have been killed by it before on more than one occasion

I noticed that phantom barrel while playing Donkey King. At first I thought my eyes were just playing tricks on me, but I saw it several times over the course of 4 games.
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Offline JNugent

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Re: Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2014, 11:01:04 PM »
in crazy kong part II there is a wild barrel that appears on the barrel board for only a handful of frames. similar to a lightning strike. it typically happens on the left side of the screen and CAN kill you. most people dont even notice it as it happens so fast. dean and i have both witnessed this lightning barrel and i have been killed by it before on more than one occasion

Yer, I've seen it!  But I had NO idea it could kill me!  Good to know... love the Crazy Kong... well, craziness!

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Offline Sock Master

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Re: Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2016, 06:12:19 PM »
in crazy kong part II there is a wild barrel that appears on the barrel board for only a handful of frames. similar to a lightning strike. it typically happens on the left side of the screen and CAN kill you. most people dont even notice it as it happens so fast. dean and i have both witnessed this lightning barrel and i have been killed by it before on more than one occasion


I was messing around in CK today and this happened to me, so of course I was curious as to why the game might do this...  what's the logic/mechanism behind a lightning barrel?

So I got it to happen again and noticed something interesting.  It's not Kong that throws the lightning barrel!
The lightning barrel is a wild barrel that happens to fly right at the oil can.   When it hits the oil can (a solid object composed of tiles in CK, not a sprite like in DK) the barrel-girder collision routine sees those extra tiles and applies a very large velocity to the wild barrel.   It gets thrown down through the bottom of the screen and reappears from the top flying down at lightning speed.

That means lightning barrels are actually predictable - if you see a wild barrel heading on a collision course with the oil can, it can become a lightning barrel.

(edit: watch that wild barrel headed for the oil can right before the lightning barrel strike)
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« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 06:24:51 PM by Sock Master »
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Offline Adam_Mon

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Re: Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2016, 03:02:21 AM »
Never knew about this, the only strange thing iv'e noticed on ck is sometimes a barrel (not sure if wild or reg) will hit the oil can and float back up to kong extreamly quickly in a straight line.. (sometimes it looks like the sprite flickers as it does this), kind of like in remix if a barrel rolls onto the spring it shoots from bottom to top vertically, I'm wondering if the barrel that hit you in the video came from kongs posistion/ girder or from the bottom of the screen , it does look like the wild hit the oil can and then shot up for a frame or so before dissapearing?

Offline Sock Master

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Re: Complete (i hope) list of differences between crazy kong and DK.
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2016, 02:16:28 PM »
Never knew about this, the only strange thing iv'e noticed on ck is sometimes a barrel (not sure if wild or reg) will hit the oil can and float back up to kong extreamly quickly in a straight line.. (sometimes it looks like the sprite flickers as it does this), kind of like in remix if a barrel rolls onto the spring it shoots from bottom to top vertically, I'm wondering if the barrel that hit you in the video came from kongs posistion/ girder or from the bottom of the screen , it does look like the wild hit the oil can and then shot up for a frame or so before dissapearing?

It's Jeremy's video, it was perfect to show that the wild hitting the oil can is what turns into a lightning barrel.
A frame-by-frame analysis might be good, but it looks like when the wild hits the oil can, it turns into a side-view barrel (which means it switched to bounce mode) and I think when it's surrounded by 'solid' tiles (which the oil can is in CK) it gets confused by solid tiles being above it when they're normally below on a bounce - and so it calculates a *really* high bounce factor.   If it's >127 it counts as a negative number and the barrel flies down.  it it's <128 it's positive and it flies up.   Whichever the case, it goes so fast that it travels the whole screen in a couple of frames.

In that sense, it is similar to a barrel hitting the spring in Remix, but Remix sets a trajectory that sends the barrel in an arc to the top.
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