Author Topic: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline  (Read 59669 times)

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Online WCopeland

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #195 on: October 29, 2015, 01:57:51 PM »
Quote from: serphintizer
It feels like I'm cheating it's so butter.  We are talking absolutely zero lag.  Robbie has also experienced this phenomenon, but what does he know?  Kappa


Frankly, Robbie's opinions on MAME usability are irrelevant because Robbie is not a MAME player, and to my knowledge has never played a MAME game of Donkey Kong at a world-class level. This is also a mischaracterization of how Robbie feels about platform differences, which is that there are two records: the arcade platform and the MAME platform.

Quote from: serphintizer
The question then becomes, why?  Why does it run this way on an XP machine?  Well, I don't know the answer to that, but I am certainly convinced beyond reproach that a few top players used and still use this setup not by accident, but by premeditated design.  However, in my mind, it doesn't matter anyway.  The genuine article (World Record) will always be held by the person who did it on an arcade machine.  Once arcade machines disappear forever, then we can talk different platforms.       


I feel like I'm in a unique position to address this because I have some of the highest scores ever achieved on both platforms.

For context, you have publicly made these comments on Twitch:

Quote from: serphintizer
Ethan, rent a U-Haul and bring Dean a machine. Let's see what he's got. Kappa
I don't count Dean's score either.
Reclining in a La-Z-Boy with greasy chips sitting on your belly while playing Donkey Kong should not count.
Smaller muscle groups vs larger muscle groups.
MAME has the advantage all day long.
Reaction time and reflexes.
I have said this before and I'll say it again, Dean knows the secret of all secrets.
Dean's "dinosaur" setup isn't by accident.
Go ask Dean and Jeff Willms, HUGDD.


By a wide margin, the community disagrees with you that MAME is a huge advantage. At a lower level, such as what I've seen you play at, I can understand how mechanical skill might make a difference. However, at 1.1m+ and especially 1.14m+ paces, I would argue that decision-making by far and away trumps mechanical ability as the most important skill needed to avoid pace decay. I think any player who is able to maintain a 61k level average over six or seven levels realizes this as well.

Arcade on CRT should experience even less input lag than 100% speed MAME on a flatscreen regardless of OS. With this in mind, the only thing left is physical endurance and the mechanical delay caused by a joystick (which, as noted above, doesn't actually matter anyway). None of the top MAME players have had any problem with this:
  • Jeff Willms won three Kong Offs in a row (we can go ahead and include KO4).
  • Dean has scored 1.1m on arcade platform at the drop of a hat and has maintained astronomically higher pace very deep into the game on arcade platform.
  • I have performed well at every live event I've ever played at, scoring 1m+ multiple times and taking 3rd overall at KO4. Not to mention the first man 1.1m thing.
The fact of the matter is, every top MAME player has proven their abilities on an arcade cabinet as well. There is no quantifiable evidence I can find to suggest that a top MAME player would struggle on Arcade, or would not be capable of getting the same score on the other platform. I am quite confident that if Dean had access to a cabinet and was grinding on that platform instead of MAME when he was going for his 1.2m, he would've gotten it on Arcade instead. There is little to no evidence that would suggest otherwise.
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Offline f_symbols

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #196 on: October 29, 2015, 02:32:44 PM »
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Offline serphintizer

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #197 on: October 29, 2015, 03:41:41 PM »
Quote from: WCopeland
Frankly, Robbie's opinions on MAME usability are irrelevant because Robbie is not a MAME player, and to my knowledge has never played a MAME game of Donkey Kong at a world-class level. This is also a mischaracterization of how Robbie feels about platform differences, which is that there are two records: the arcade platform and the MAME platform.

Irrelevant?  What?!  How should one even approach such ridiculousness?  A million on MAME is a joke to him, we have already seen that.

Quote from: WCopeland
I feel like I'm in a unique position to address this because I have some of the highest scores ever achieved on both platforms.

For context, you have publicly made these comments on Twitch:

Ethan, rent a U-Haul and bring Dean a machine. Let's see what he's got. Kappa
I don't count Dean's score either.
Reclining in a La-Z-Boy with greasy chips sitting on your belly while playing Donkey Kong should not count.
Smaller muscle groups vs larger muscle groups.
MAME has the advantage all day long.
Reaction time and reflexes.
I have said this before and I'll say it again, Dean knows the secret of all secrets.
Dean's "dinosaur" setup isn't by accident.
Go ask Dean and Jeff Willms, HUGDD.

 ;D I forgot that the community is heavy into bugging/screenshots/recon.  I stand by those comments (the full context isn't represented, but no matter).  I am convinced, and that is what I believe.  Let's also remember that these comments were made in regards to WORLD RECORD scores (part of the missing context).

Quote from: WCopeland
By a wide margin, the community disagrees with you that MAME is a huge advantage. At a lower level, such as what I've seen you play at, I can understand how mechanical skill might make a difference. However, at 1.1m+ and especially 1.14m+ paces, I would argue that decision-making by far and away trumps mechanical ability as the most important skill needed to avoid pace decay. I think any player who is able to maintain a 61k level average over six or seven levels realizes this as well.

Arcade on CRT should experience even less input lag than 100% speed MAME on a flatscreen regardless of OS. With this in mind, the only thing left is physical endurance and the mechanical delay caused by a joystick (which, as noted above, doesn't actually matter anyway). None of the top MAME players have had any problem with this:

     •Jeff Willms won three Kong Offs in a row (we can go ahead and include KO4).
     •Dean has scored 1.1m on arcade platform at the drop of a hat and has maintained astronomically higher pace very deep into the game on arcade platform.
     •I have performed well at every live event I've ever played at, scoring 1m+ multiple times and taking 3rd overall at KO4. Not to mention the first man 1.1m thing.

The fact of the matter is, every top MAME player has proven their abilities on an arcade cabinet as well. There is no quantifiable evidence I can find to suggest that a top MAME player would struggle on Arcade, or would not be capable of getting the same score on the other platform. I am quite confident that if Dean had access to a cabinet and was grinding on that platform instead of MAME when he was going for his 1.2m, he would've gotten it on Arcade instead. There is little to no evidence that would suggest otherwise.

Right off the bat with argumentum ad populum?!  You are better than that, Wes.  My 1M+ point game with only a 108400 start and zero grouping throughout is considered "low level"?  <gasp>  Let's say that arcade on CRT "should" experience less input lag—even if that were the case, it won't make up for the physical endurance needed or the mechanical delay caused by a joystick (you say it doesn't matter...what?!).  If you don't believe that playing on an arcade machine is a lot more physically, and therefore mentally demanding than playing MAME, I don't know what to tell you (it's rudimentary science).  Weren't your wrists bothering you so much that you had to stop playing on an arcade machine for a while...hmm.  I also remember Dean saying that after playing on an arcade machine, certain muscles would be extremely sore afterwards...hmm.  Speaking of Dean, I know for a fact that he has been given an upgraded computer to use, and has even been offered an arcade machine indefinitely...for free!  He has declined.  There is some evidence for you right there.  Now how ya gonna solve that one, Aguado?
"Kill screen? Ha! It's for tourists."  - Mr. X
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Online WCopeland

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #198 on: October 29, 2015, 03:44:39 PM »
I've sparred with Lexmark before, so I'll let your posts speak for themselves. I have nothing else to add.
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Offline serphintizer

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #199 on: October 29, 2015, 03:55:11 PM »
I've sparred with Lexmark before, so I'll let your posts speak for themselves. I have nothing else to add.

 FailFish What does that even mean?
"Kill screen? Ha! It's for tourists."  - Mr. X
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Offline ChrisP

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #200 on: November 16, 2015, 11:03:51 PM »
Billy Gaines killscreened on November 1st, but I'll just let his own "victory speech" do the talking:   :)

"Donkey Kong 'Kill Screen' is here! I got to the 117th board aka the Kill Screen a few minutes ago. After a 19 month battle (to the day) and many failed attempts, I finally beat that big Ape. Thanks to so many people for their support. Jerry Bagwell turned me on to the King of Kong documentary a few years ago and after watching it again April 1st of last year I began my Kill Screen quest. The support of Wes Copeland, Robbie Lakeman, Allen Staal, Joe Dupre, Dan Solis, Aaron C Truitt, Jeremy Young, Chris Psaros, Brian Allen, Jonathan Mccourt, Mark Kiehl, Ethan Daniels, Andrew Gardikis, Andrew Barrow, Andrew Garrett, Eric Tessler, Todd Anthony Lalonde, Al Jones, Duc, Michelle Heckman, Jeff Strickland, Todd Heard, Vincent Lemay, George Riley, Phil Tudose, Ken House, Jeff Harrist and many others helped keep me going. Thanks to Billy Mitchell for setting the Kill Screen as a standard of arcade excellence. Walter Aldro Day Jr. & Richie Knucklez thanks for keeping our hobby alive with your work and passion. Dan Solis of the Z82 Retrocade in Sherwood, AR you are the man my friend. Most of all I thank my lovely wife Yuliya Gaines for putting up with me during the countless hours of play. Love you babe! OMG ... Tears .. LIT!"
http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com

4 Quarters :-* - 800K Avg. Per Qtr. :o - No Restarts 8) - No Proof :'(

7/26/2013   Coin 35,946   710,800   18-1
7/28/2013   Coin 35,947   903,700   22-1
8/16/2013   Coin 35,948   694,100   17-6
8/17/2013   Coin 35,949   893,100   22-1

3,201,700: the $1 World Record?
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Offline xelnia

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #201 on: November 22, 2015, 06:18:13 AM »
Billy Gaines killscreened on November 1st, but I'll just let his own "victory speech" do the talking:   :)

This was an Arcade KS, currently listed as MAME.
"Do not criticize, question, suggest or opine anything about an upcoming CAG event, no matter how constructive or positive your intent may be. You will find nothing but pain and frustration, trust me. Just go, or don't go, and :-X either way!" -ChrisP, 3/29/15
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Offline xelnia

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #202 on: November 22, 2015, 07:33:16 AM »
Ike Hall's game on 6/14/2009 was not a killscreen. Unsure if he ever did.

Josh Criss game date should be 11/7/2010 (or the verification date of 11/22/2010).
"Do not criticize, question, suggest or opine anything about an upcoming CAG event, no matter how constructive or positive your intent may be. You will find nothing but pain and frustration, trust me. Just go, or don't go, and :-X either way!" -ChrisP, 3/29/15
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Offline BillyGaines

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #203 on: November 23, 2015, 04:19:56 PM »
Billy Gaines killscreened on November 1st, but I'll just let his own "victory speech" do the talking:   :)

This was an Arcade KS, currently listed as MAME.
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Offline tilt

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #204 on: November 23, 2015, 04:51:29 PM »
Billy Gaines killscreened on November 1st, but I'll just let his own "victory speech" do the talking:   :)

This was an Arcade KS, currently listed as MAME.
What's a man gotta do to get his badge?
JC is the only person who can apply badges unfortunately, and I think he has been busy as of late.  If I see him here, ill remind him to add your badge.
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PB(s):
Donkey Kong: 1,004,100 (KS)
Donkey kong Hard roms(prev. world record): 914,200
Crazy Kong: 513,700 (KS)
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Offline Fliplismc

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #205 on: December 27, 2015, 02:11:22 AM »
Just did my first Donkey Kong Killscreen . unfortunely l did not record it, cause im in Australia but did it live at Bartronia Arcade in Melbourne. Thank you everyone here at The DK Forum for The support, still cant believe it. Final score was 852.500
CK MAME: 601,000 - KS
DK Arcade: 852,500 - KS
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Offline p2dose

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #206 on: December 27, 2015, 05:38:34 AM »
outstanding! congrats johnny :)

Offline YesAffinity

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #207 on: December 27, 2015, 05:45:54 AM »
Just did my first Donkey Kong Killscreen . unfortunely l did not record it, cause im in Australia but did it live at Bartronia Arcade in Melbourne. Thank you everyone here at The DK Forum for The support, still cant believe it. Final score was 852.500
Awesome!  Kongrats!
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DK Arcade PB (verified): 970,200 KS
DK Start PB (verified): 126,600
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Offline marinomitch13

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #208 on: December 27, 2015, 10:16:30 AM »
Just did my first Donkey Kong Killscreen . unfortunely l did not record it, cause im in Australia but did it live at Bartronia Arcade in Melbourne. Thank you everyone here at The DK Forum for The support, still cant believe it. Final score was 852.500

Sweet! How many people were able to be there to celebrate with you at the Killscreen?!
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Offline Fliplismc

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Re: Donkey Kong Kill-Screener Timeline
« Reply #209 on: December 27, 2015, 04:27:01 PM »
Just did my first Donkey Kong Killscreen . unfortunely l did not record it, cause im in Australia but did it live at Bartronia Arcade in Melbourne. Thank you everyone here at The DK Forum for The support, still cant believe it. Final score was 852.500

Sweet! How many people were able to be there to celebrate with you at the Killscreen?!
there were about 20 people in the arcade at the time but not many people gave a shit about it, playing Mario kart and pinball but the girl behind The counter loved it, and The guys next to me playing mortal Kombat watched it :) Highfives, hugs and cold beers, it was Awesome!
« Last Edit: December 27, 2015, 07:34:53 PM by Fliplismc »
CK MAME: 601,000 - KS
DK Arcade: 852,500 - KS
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