Donkey Kong Forum

General Donkey Kong Discussion => The Kong-Off => Topic started by: RichieKnucklez on March 06, 2015, 07:05:23 AM

Title: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: RichieKnucklez on March 06, 2015, 07:05:23 AM
 Kong Off 4 date is is set! July 30,31,Aug 1, 2
Pittsburgh Pa at the Replay FX event.

More deets when I get time.
anyone is welcome to call me anytime with any questions;

908.797.7901

~Richie
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: homerwannabee on March 06, 2015, 07:26:27 AM
Kong Off 4 date is is set! July 30,31,Aug 1, 2
Pittsburgh Pa at the Replay FX event.

More deets when I get time.
anyone is welcome to call me anytime with any questions;

908.797.7901

~Richie
Awesome!!  This has some good potential for some great things to come.  The really good news about this is I am guessing there is a very good chance this will be streamed live. :)
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: Xermon54 on March 06, 2015, 07:30:08 AM
Oh my god, lovit Richie!  Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm

The Kong Off 4 will be the biggest one. The location looks perfect, and I'm sure it will be big big big!

Thanks for everything you've done Richie, I know setting up the Kong Off 4 has not been an easy task, but all your efforts will be worth it! Can't wait!
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: lakeman421 on March 06, 2015, 07:38:18 AM
Lovit! Kreygasm
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: Evunz on March 06, 2015, 07:46:46 AM
This is very good news, i will follow it closely.

Good luck for the future of preparations Richie ;)
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: marinomitch13 on March 06, 2015, 12:53:30 PM
Awesome, Richie!  Kreygasm

Continue to let us know if you need any help!
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: f_symbols on March 06, 2015, 04:59:20 PM
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM, gotem phil gotem
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: f_symbols on March 08, 2015, 09:32:36 PM
Looks like Replay FX will also be having a CAG event  <Mruczek> <Sanders> <Roy> <Kuh> <Pigger> with a large cash payout  <Tim> $5K
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: johnbart on March 09, 2015, 03:23:12 PM
Wow the format of the CAG event looks awesome.  It allows for skill, nerves and a bit of luck over stamina.  Very nice to see.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: maximumsteve on March 11, 2015, 06:31:18 PM
L I T
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: craighiphopfish on March 12, 2015, 05:10:01 PM
Never been to PA, gotta go
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: marky_d on May 06, 2015, 12:02:12 AM
From pinside forums:

"The ReplayFX raffle prizes are beginning to arrive! This fleece blanket is a screenshot from Dean Saglio's 1.2m point run on his record-setting game of Donkey Kong."

(https://img-f.pinside.com/201505/2421810/398839.jpg)
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: WCopeland on May 06, 2015, 07:22:06 AM
 <stirpot>
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: Xermon54 on May 06, 2015, 10:18:57 AM
Robbie having a fleence blanket of his world record would've changed his life for the best  <Tim>
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: marinomitch13 on May 06, 2015, 09:21:25 PM
I won't lie. I actually want this.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: marky_d on July 22, 2015, 02:09:12 AM
Has anyone heard if there are plans for streaming this event on twitch or anywhere else? If not, will there be a place to see standings/bracket updates?
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: hchien on July 22, 2015, 04:22:02 AM
I'm assuming it will be streamed, but I haven't heard anything official.  It's probably mostly dependent on whether Ken House is coming.

I also thought of another question... How will machine selection be handled?  I'm assuming first come first serve or by rank.  Has this been discussed?

I'll call Richie when we gather up some unanswered questions.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: mikegmi2 on July 22, 2015, 05:14:48 AM
I remember there being a Facebook photo posted a month or 2 ago of a DK machine with a 36-40" TV flipped vertically mounted next to the machine with the caption, "Kong Off 4 stream setup", or something like that.  That's the only evidence I've seen that the KO4 will be streamed.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: WCopeland on July 22, 2015, 02:59:57 PM
I have to admit I'm a bit underwhelmed by the official communication we're receiving for KO4.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: DadsGlasses on July 22, 2015, 05:57:57 PM
I have to admit I'm a bit underwhelmed by the official communication we're receiving for KO4.

I'm still waiting for any communication regarding the Marquee I ordered a while ago on KLOV. Paid $80. Sent a DM, an email, and a post on the forum. PayPal shows the payment was accepted, but there has been zero confirmation on the KLOV marquee sale thread.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: Kewydee_17 on July 24, 2015, 02:36:18 AM
Has anyone heard if there are plans for streaming this event on twitch or anywhere else? If not, will there be a place to see standings/bracket updates?

With 1 week to go the lack of info is worrying.

Am very excited for the KO4 but whats happening?

Will it be streamed?
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: lakeman421 on July 24, 2015, 03:40:46 PM
Last time I talked to Richie about this he said it would be streamed. But I guess anything could change. At the very least some of us will be there that Wednesday and keep everyone updated.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: DadsGlasses on July 24, 2015, 06:28:27 PM
Last time I talked to Richie about this he said it would be streamed. But I guess anything could change. At the very least some of us will be there that Wednesday and keep everyone updated.

Any chance you'll be throwing a signature onto one of the Marquees that Richie has sold?  He mentioned trying to get competitor sigs for those of us that prepurchased.

Not a big deal if you are too busy but it would add a nice touch!

Good luck and have fun.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: lakeman421 on July 24, 2015, 07:08:24 PM
Last time I talked to Richie about this he said it would be streamed. But I guess anything could change. At the very least some of us will be there that Wednesday and keep everyone updated.

Any chance you'll be throwing a signature onto one of the Marquees that Richie has sold?  He mentioned trying to get competitor sigs for those of us that prepurchased.

Not a big deal if you are too busy but it would add a nice touch!

Good luck and have fun.
I'm sure we will have time to sign the marquees. Honestly I don't even know what our schedule is so I don't want to promise anything 100%.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: DadsGlasses on July 25, 2015, 04:29:28 AM
I'm sure we will have time to sign the marquees. Honestly I don't even know what our schedule is so I don't want to promise anything 100%.


Just promise to play some kick ass Donkey Kong. I'm sure the rest will fall into line!
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: hchien on July 25, 2015, 12:40:26 PM
I just spoke to Richie.

Friday, Saturday will be tough to stream because there's a pinball tournament and they will occupy most of the bandwidth.  Sunday will be streamed as per Richie.

Machines are first come first serve.  You can bring your own control panel, but the wiring must be compatible with the DK machine.  From KO2 I learned there are 2 different sets of CP wiring.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: WCopeland on July 25, 2015, 02:23:41 PM
So in other words, KO4 is a side-show until Sunday, and the majority of what people will see on the stream will be a bunch of folks running boards. The big games actually worthy of world-class play will not be broadcasted.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: Xermon54 on July 25, 2015, 02:35:32 PM
http://media.giphy.com/media/U1XhGr8CWqvVC/giphy.gif (http://media.giphy.com/media/U1XhGr8CWqvVC/giphy.gif)

But at least, viewers will have the priviledge to see people running boards and waiting on top of each barrel boards.  Kappa  <Allen>
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: p2dose on July 25, 2015, 02:42:12 PM
 FailFish
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: xelnia on July 25, 2015, 03:13:47 PM
([url]http://media.giphy.com/media/U1XhGr8CWqvVC/giphy.gif[/url])

But at least, viewers will have the priviledge to see people running boards and waiting on top of each barrel boards.  Kappa  <Allen>


fify  :)
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: Xermon54 on July 25, 2015, 05:09:09 PM
Thanks Jeremate!  Kreygasm
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: homerwannabee on July 25, 2015, 05:11:39 PM
The biggest problem with the wait it out approach is you lose vital bonus points doing so.  You wait to long, and it's harder to come back from.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: WCopeland on July 25, 2015, 06:07:04 PM
One bottom hammer and you earn them all back, not a problem.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: homerwannabee on July 25, 2015, 06:23:34 PM
One bottom hammer and you earn them all back, not a problem.
That is if you do it once, but the game is 116 boards.  Being on board 75 instead of 76 is not a huge advantage.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: homerwannabee on July 25, 2015, 06:28:49 PM
Also it's about pace.  The person ahead if he is decent at math can figure out the pace of the person behind, and adjust their pace accordingly.
The system has it's flaws.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: WCopeland on July 25, 2015, 07:17:33 PM
The player who is behind will always be at an advantage. If you're jumping barrels at the top, the only way you lose points is if Kong throws a wild, which is only going to be 100 points lost for every 1600 points accrued on average while at the top girder. A typical bottom hammer should earn 2500+ points. Let's say on average Kong throws two wilds while you camp the top girder. One bottom hammer will thus recover the points lost for 12 barrel boards, or 4 levels.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: xelnia on July 25, 2015, 09:04:44 PM
Sunday will be streamed as per Richie.

Any word on a Twitch channel, time, etc.?
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: ChrisP on July 25, 2015, 11:14:14 PM
Seeing as how the contest hasn't started yet and everyone is at 0, I don't understand what the conundrum is here.

Just ban stalling tactics from the outset, and make sure everybody knows the rule. Problem solved.  :P

I mean yes, this should have been discussed with the players and worked out long ago (along with many other things), but it's not too late to work it out amongst yourselves.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: KIG666 on July 26, 2015, 02:43:45 AM
So in other words, KO4 is a side-show until Sunday, and the majority of what people will see on the stream will be a bunch of folks running boards. The big games actually worthy of world-class play will not be broadcasted.

What an disappointment  :(

The Kong Off should be about the biggest score so they should stream the first days as well.

If some freakin pinball tournament is more worthy to stream for them you know that the Kong Off is definitely on the wrong location this time  ::)

I'm not interested to watch lame running boards. You can watch this from any average DK player as well no need to include such lame stuff in a Kong Off imo. Oh well each to their own I guess...
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: homerwannabee on July 26, 2015, 08:42:28 AM
The player who is behind will always be at an advantage. If you're jumping barrels at the top, the only way you lose points is if Kong throws a wild, which is only going to be 100 points lost for every 1600 points accrued on average while at the top girder. A typical bottom hammer should earn 2500+ points. Let's say on average Kong throws two wilds while you camp the top girder. One bottom hammer will thus recover the points lost for 12 barrel boards, or 4 levels.
Ok, my bad, I was thinking standing on the ladder at the top for some strange reason.  But yeah, jumping the very top level barrels would work.
I guess the only problem with that is your opponent can do the exact same thing, so maybe it's not an advantage doing something like that.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: mikegmi2 on July 26, 2015, 09:07:03 AM
A few have discussed a gentlemen's agreement to not do any stalling.  Hopefully this will hold true next weekend.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: homerwannabee on July 26, 2015, 05:24:34 PM
A few have discussed a gentlemen's agreement to not do any stalling.  Hopefully this will hold true next weekend.
<Billy> Gentlemen's agreement! I like those.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: mikegmi2 on July 27, 2015, 05:09:43 AM
If there's an open power outlet I can plug my phone into, I may try to stream Fri/Sat via Periscope.

You can follow my Twitter Mike Groesbeck @mikegmi2 for a notification when the stream goes live.

Odds of this working are probably very slim due to not being able to get a decent cell signal inside the convention center.  Just trying to figure out a way to provide some coverage since it doesn't sound like anything will be streamed Fri/Sat...
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: konghusker on July 27, 2015, 05:19:08 AM
What am I missing here in regards to guys wanting to run the timers down? Doesn't high score win your match on Sunday?
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: mikegmi2 on July 27, 2015, 05:38:25 AM
What am I missing here in regards to guys wanting to run the timers down? Doesn't high score win your match on Sunday?

The argument is that a player that takes their time, and progresses slowly and carefully, will have an advantage over someone that finishes boards quickly...or point presses.

The faster you run through pie factory and rivet boards, the higher your chances of a 'screwing' happening (amongst other things such as making a mental error).  So the player that sits back, jumps barrels until the timer runs out on all barrel boards, and finds other ways to safely stall out their game for as long as possible and at the same time not lose too many points, could monitor his opponent and play out his game accordingly.  Given equal skill levels and play styles of 2 players, the stalling strategy could (would) be the winning strategy if you factor in the evil randomness of DK.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: xelnia on July 27, 2015, 06:13:32 AM
the stalling strategy

 <Allen>
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: konghusker on July 27, 2015, 06:21:20 AM
OK, that's what I assumed. I kept hearing rumors of a last man or first to die style match. Just wanted to clarify. Thanks Mike
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: Kewydee_17 on July 27, 2015, 09:46:49 AM

No stream on friday or saturday? Is this really true?

The pinnacle event in the Donkey Kong calendar and fans don't get to see it?

The best players in the world deserve an audience.

But I guess that unless you are actually standing there looking over their shoulders you won't get to see why they are the best.

This is FUBAR.

Please tell me I am wrong, I want to be wrong.

I WANT TO WATCH
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: mikegmi2 on July 28, 2015, 04:30:29 AM
I got confirmation from whomever runs the Replay FX Facebook page.  Fri/Sat will not be streamed.  Sunday's finals will be streamed.

A couple friends have asked, so pending a decent cell signal, i'll be streaming via Periscope @mikegmi2 (linked with Twitter account).
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: alumbrada on July 28, 2015, 05:04:18 AM
Fri/Sat will not be streamed.

Exciting!!!!

Please do your best with the cell phone streaming.... We're all counting on you.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: Adam_Mon on July 28, 2015, 06:19:27 AM
I got confirmation from whomever runs the Replay FX Facebook page.  Fri/Sat will not be streamed.  Sunday's finals will be streamed.

A couple friends have asked, so pending a decent cell signal, i'll be streaming via Periscope @mikegmi2 (linked with Twitter account).

That's a pretty big disappointment.

Hopefully you can pull something off with the streaming alternative Mike.
Thank you  BibleThump
 
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: marky_d on July 28, 2015, 07:26:16 AM
Since it won't be streamed, has anyone heard if someone is planning on posting standings updates for the two day high score battle anywhere?
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: danman123456 on July 28, 2015, 03:06:27 PM
well Ill bring my cameras and laptops and my 4G mifi so I should be able to stream some of the event hopefully. I stream at pretty low res so it should not take to much of my mifi 5G. Otherwise my unlimited on my cell from verizon I may try and figure out how to use :D

Dan
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: jwade614 on July 28, 2015, 08:58:37 PM
Is the meet and greet an actual organized event? Like meet at such and such place at such and such time? Or just show up at the kong off area on Thursday and meet and greet whoever happens to be there?

Also, I am going to see Dean Ween Group at Mr. Smalls on Thursday night. Anyone else going? Anyone else want to go?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssefeKhffvo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssefeKhffvo)
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: mikegmi2 on July 29, 2015, 06:22:07 AM
Not sure about the meet and greet, was wondering the same thing.  Since machine selection is first come first served, I assume players will be there early testing out machines and picking ones they want for the event.

I'm a big craft beer snob, so I plan to check out Church Brew Works Thursday night if anyone else is interested in that.  They brew their own Trippel and also a 'Cherry Quadzilla".  Plan on taking home a few bottles of that if it is in stock.

As for updates...I haven't heard anything but likely many that are there will be taking photos and posting score updates throughout the day.  If the stream from my phone is working I could walk around and show updates of different players (without disturbing anyone), or flash the scoreboard (if there is one) on stream.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: LMDAVE on July 29, 2015, 12:00:11 PM
A screen shot of the leaderboard every now and then will be cool, but will there be a leaderboard on a monitor there?
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: Kewydee_17 on July 30, 2015, 11:48:33 PM

Just wanted to say thanks to Richie and Danman for streaming yesterday. Was patchy coverage due to bandwidth issues but gratefully received :)

An awesome row of DK cabinets with their marquees glowing was quite a sight to see.

Hopefully the bandwidth gods will grant us some extra today so we can see a bit more of the action

It's on like.....
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: ChrisP on July 31, 2015, 12:01:21 AM
http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-kong-off-4-is-here.html (http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-kong-off-4-is-here.html)

As for the rest of this weekend, I'm just gonna play it by ear! :)
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: PAPA_Doug on August 04, 2015, 07:07:23 AM
So in other words, KO4 is a side-show until Sunday, and the majority of what people will see on the stream will be a bunch of folks running boards. The big games actually worthy of world-class play will not be broadcasted.

KO4 was not quite a side-show. The DK World Championships were the featured event at the festival on Sunday.

We moved the Pinburgh Match-Play Championships finals to Saturday (used to be on Sunday) so both events could have quality online coverage.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: PAPA_Doug on August 04, 2015, 07:11:32 AM
What an disappointment  :(

The Kong Off should be about the biggest score so they should stream the first days as well.

If some freakin pinball tournament is more worthy to stream for them you know that the Kong Off is definitely on the wrong location this time  ::)

I'm not interested to watch lame running boards. You can watch this from any average DK player as well no need to include such lame stuff in a Kong Off imo. Oh well each to their own I guess...
[/quote]

The Pinburgh Championship has over 600 players and $100k in prize money.

We are hoping the festival and the big championships here (Pinburgh, KO4, and the WDRWC) can elevate the status of ALL the events and grow them all to levels never before seen.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: f_symbols on August 04, 2015, 08:11:38 AM
I think the event had very fair coverage and exposure from wihthin; a lot of the comments are coming from people who were unable to attend and were heavily dependent on streaming coverage and online updates.  As far as being there..

We got tons of love from ReplayFX, the papatv crew and the event coordinators.  Announcements went over the intercom anytime a player reached level 20 or so <Kuh>, this always resulted in a crowd of 20-50 spectators aggregating behind the cab (and coupled LCD screen) of interest, we got public interest and support, large rounds of applause and photos a plenty.  There was an on-site media crew that followed the KO exclusively, with high end audio and video equipment, these people were genuinely dedicated to doing a good job, I was told a bluray is in the works; service with a smile.  On Sunday, they literally gave us the main stage, I was told by the head IT guy that they spent over 5 hours Saturday night setting up our stage.  The papatv crew had a legit broadcasting station that covered Sunday professionally and they included educated players in the commentary. 

Imo the ReplayFX staff and the papatv staff were beyond professional, supportive, and truly courteous; they appreciated us as players as much as we should appreciate them for the inclusion in this wonderous location and event.  This was the first year for ReplayFX, let alone their first time hosting the KO.

Everyone has growing pains and lesson-learning on their way to greatness; this event was a total homerun and will only be better next year, don't even get me started on how fkn epic the conference center and its location in the city were.

I would like to personally thank anyone who helped make this event special, it can only get better going forward; thank you Richie, ReplayFX, PapaTV, danman, JC, mikegmi and anyone else who helped in any context with the event. 

Easily 10x better than KO3, the venues are truly incomparable, it's not even close.   Kreygasm
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: KIG666 on August 04, 2015, 08:46:34 AM
The Pinburgh Championship has over 600 players and $100k in prize money.

We are hoping the festival and the big championships here (Pinburgh, KO4, and the WDRWC) can elevate the status of ALL the events and grow them all to levels never before seen.

Call me old fashioned, DK should get played for max points. The bracket style was not my thing. Let alone the fact that not even the games in the bracket got played til the end from the winners. As I saw the first two ppl playing against each other stopped playing right after it was clear who won I was not really interested anymore. I wanted to see ppl that playing out full games.

The streaming was an disappointment. Without ppl like Dan and Jeff it would have been a total disaster.

It might have been a great event for ppl that were there no doubt but it was everthing else than profesional for me as viewer of the streams  :(

For me DK is not about a coin drop nor about stopping games. Never surrender, to stop games until Kong stops you is against the nature of the game haha


The game is so random so to say one coin drop is the best way to determine the winner just didn't work for me that's all.

Maybe I would have enjoyed the bracket style a bit if ppl would have played full games and if it would have been streamed professional who knows as for now for me Kong Off 4 was a big disappointment  :(


To end my post with something positive here we go.

Still great to see that Kong Off reached round 4 and that Hank is back in business  8)
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: timhett on August 04, 2015, 09:07:53 AM


Call me old fashioned, DK should get played for max points. The bracket style was not my thing. Let alone the fact that not even the games in the bracket got played til the end from the winners. As I saw the first two ppl playing against each other stopped playing right after it was clear who won I was not really interested anymore. I wanted to see ppl that playing out full games.

The streaming was an disappointment. Without ppl like Dan and Jeff it would have been a total disaster.

[/quote]


I understand what you mean and at first agreed. However, I decided later that a bracket system was fine.  The competition was not for a world record but for the best at the event, in head to head competition like the old days and like most athletic games.  Baseball doesn't always get played through the 9th inning if the last batters have no chance to win it and a 7 game series isn't played out if the game count is 4-0 (as examples).  Also, with the initial High Score contest, it still allows for the high score angle.  Going for a world record on DK usually means many restarts over many hours and is boring to watch.  For this kind of event head to head action is more exciting, it's player vs player instead of player vs Kong.  I also like the idea of getting a single coin drop and you have to make the best of it.  All those restarts pays into luck quite a bit, for a head to head it's better to make it all more difficult. 
I do think the streaming situation left much to be desired until the final day of course.  But there is talk of that being improved for the next time, so no stress.  Huge thanks for those that did stream, JC, Dan, Richie etc and thanks for the commentating which was awesome.
Just my two cents, FWIW.  I was sad to not be able to go but enjoyed it very much from afar.  Kreygasm
 <Tim>
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: PAPA_Doug on August 04, 2015, 06:15:24 PM


"The game is so random so to say one coin drop is the best way to determine the winner just didn't work for me that's all."



I'm curious about this statement because at the Pinburgh championships we played one tiebreaker game of Pinball at the end for $15,000 dollars (the largest individual prize ever for pinball). You could feel the tension in the air and it made for a great broadcast and a huge crowd on hand to witness it. If we had just played  for high score all weekend the dramatic moment would've never occurred.

In order for the sport to grow you need these kind of moments to occur and I think that was part of the thinking behind the format change for this year's event.

I think it might've been confusing that there were multiple streams as well, but maybe I'm wrong there as it did offer viewers a choice, but I think we need to communicate all of the options for the viewers better in the future.

That said, I'm interested in any and all feedback that would make the stream better. We are always looking to improve what we put out there.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: WCopeland on August 04, 2015, 06:20:33 PM
Thanks for being open to feedback.

Let's get the obvious out of the way: in a head-to-head format, the broadcasting scenes need to show the cameras for both players rather than alternating back and forth. Users should be able to get all their info about the event from a single stream, rather than jumping back and forth between three to figure out what's going on.

So for example, rather than have 8 different scenes in the first round, there should've been 4 so each game could have been broadcast. With it split the way it was, it's kind of like watching a football game but only being able to see the offense or defense -- it's almost impossible to get the whole story.

Other than that, I think most of the disappointment comes from two areas:

There was no digital scoreboard or bracket beyond what the community maintained. I had family and friends telling me they were completely in the dark over the event. The only way they wouldn't have been in the dark would be if they were active members of the DK community.

The big games were not streamed, and huge moments of history were lost. No one will ever see Lakeman's first man million again because it wasn't recorded. No one will ever see the full games of Dean's and Jeff's that tied -- without the complete game footage it's impossible for the community to analyze. Anyone who set a PB cannot submit it. I cannot submit my 1,060,900 arcade score because the entire thing was not recorded. If you check out the DK Milestones section, you'll see this community loves its charts and loves its in-depth game analysis... unfortunately these things are all lost forever.

Let me make myself absolutely clear -- in person, ReplayFX and Kong Off 4 were great events. However, for these events to grow, their online exposure must be equally great to produce constant long-term growth. I think that's the area that leaves a lot to be desired.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: f_symbols on August 04, 2015, 06:36:22 PM
I don't think it's fair for us as players to expect them to archive all of our scoring attempts; if you want all of your  attempts archived, then bring a camera and a laptop.  We gotta be realistic here; If we give so many damns about all this stuff then why don't (didn't) we step up to the plate and take care of it ourselves. 

Even if the "big games" had been streamed, it's insanely unlikely that they would have been complete, as the stream-scenes would be bouncing from the end of one large game to the next; even If we had been locally recording and streaming the HS attempts on some sort of DKF KO stream, I'd reckon no more than the last 400-500K of Robbies game would've been taped, and If we really want to get anal here, its useless unless it's complete. So, I'm saying that aside from locally recording every single cab for the entire event, there is no way that we would've been able to rectify the losing of "huge moments of history".
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: RichieKnucklez on August 04, 2015, 06:39:44 PM
I agree 100% with Wes. I was told going in that the Wi Fi bandwidth was reserved Fri and Sat for the Pinburgh contest, but Sunday it was all ours. I put Jace Hall in touch with the Replay FX organizers and last I heard he was on board for making the Sunday finals a great broadcast. Some time amidst the melee Jace texted me he was not coming. I had to trust the pinball guys to make an 8 game arcade head to head stream and be done by 5pm. Long and Short, If you came out and supported the event in person you had a front row seat to the best Kong Off ever. If you were unable to make it, you will have to wait for the DVD. Think of it as a Rush Concert. If you don't buy the tickets, drive out, tail gait and drink the kool aid you don't get to enjoy the show...... Until they release a live DVD then you buy it. If you want to enjoy some of the footage that was not "lost forever" about the last 20 minutes of every single big game. tune into the return of Richie Knucklez' webshow Arcade Culture. Sat Aug 29 my Co-Hosts will be 2 of the top 8 from "The Kong Off 4"  -  Radio announcer extraordinaire Wes Copeland and my home town home boy Ethan Daniels. We will be sneak peeking the exciting footage Jeffrey Ohler captured and giving insight into the future of the Kong Off 5. Anyone from our community who wants to come in and join the fun let us know. please spread the word Sat Aug 29th at 10pm EST www.twitch.tv/richieknucklez (http://www.twitch.tv/richieknucklez) as well as my twitter periscope. text me at 908.797.7901 if you wanna talk shit
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: KIG666 on August 05, 2015, 02:29:12 AM
I'm curious about this statement because at the Pinburgh championships we played one tiebreaker game of Pinball at the end for $15,000 dollars (the largest individual prize ever for pinball). You could feel the tension in the air and it made for a great broadcast and a huge crowd on hand to witness it. If we had just played  for high score all weekend the dramatic moment would've never occurred.

DK is not a pinball, you compare apples and oranges here.

I'm not an expert if it comes to pinball stuff but some friends of mine play pretty good and I never seen them struggle pretty bad on one coin.

The randomness in DK is quite different. On DK you can play 700k with just one life the next time it's game over at 300-400k if everything goes wrong.

1 coin drop is nothing on a game like Donkey Kong and that's why I wished they would have added some kind of reward bonus from the HS contest.

For example the first in the high score contest should get 3 extra tries as reward, the 2nd 2 and the 3 one still one extra coin. To play well in the HS contest would at least mean something for the title at the end with this kind of rewarding system.

Just earn more coins with a higher score. Sounds good to me :)

If that takes too long and you want save time make it harder on the extra coins. 1st extra coin just 3 lives, 2nd 2 lives and last still one life, this would be much better than just one coin drop and still exciting to watch.

It also would give the HS round from the first two days a bit more meaning for the title at the end. Right now it means nothing for the title it's just there to determine the final 8.

Pretty sad imo, once the main event now just used to determine the final 8 as it doesn't make any difference for the title at the end if you placed 1st or 8th......
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: Xermon54 on August 05, 2015, 02:46:36 AM
I agree that the lack of streaming for the first 2 days might've been disappointed for some people. However, once you guys see what has been filmed at the Kong Off 4, you will DEFINITELY enjoy it 100x more than any kind of stream. The cameraman captured so much awesome moments at the Kong Off 4. I heard a DVD of the Kong Off 4 will be out very soon.

Otherwise, the only other thing that should've been improved would've been a screen of everyone's scores and standings. But overall, Kong Off 4 did blow away the Kong Off 3 in every aspect.

For those who missed the Kong Off 4, you will definitely be pissed for missing it once you see the DVD of the Kong Off 4  Kreygasm, but you can redeem yourself by coming to the Kong Off 5 next year  Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: lakeman421 on August 05, 2015, 06:57:32 AM
The lack of streaming and scoreboard is something we can all agree on.  In my opinion this was the best and most exciting Kong Off yet.  With the amount of competition this year a million point game didn't guarantee you top 8.  People were playing for top 8 and this created more quality games and more drama towards the end.  Kong Off 3 we felt the need to go for the world record on day 1 which made it a lot less eventful.  I was skeptical of the bracket format at first, but once I saw it unfold in person I realized it was the best way to run the event.  All top 8 players agreed that it was anyone's game.  I would say the favorite in that format would maybe win 55% of the time because they were all equal match ups.  It was anyones game and nobody would have a pick that would be guaranteed to win the whole thing.  Once the DVD comes out, you will see how exciting the event was.  Never a dull moment and very entertaining for the players and spectators.  Thanks again Richie for making this whole thing happen and anyone else who helped.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: danman123456 on August 05, 2015, 07:12:24 AM
This was a new venue with new scenarios. We know what worked well and we know what didn't. Overall this event was amazing and for everyone there it was fantastic. I hope to be working hard with Richie next year to help make this event even bigger and badder for everyone. The stage this year was fantastic, the venue had plenty of space, tons of support from the crowd, etc ,etc. People don't realize just how much work was involved and while small MINOR issues may have occurred overall this was a HUGE success in my mind and I was happy and proud to be a part of it. I have ideas how to address the streaming and online part of this going forward so let's all move forward. Again this event was great, the staff at replaxfx/papatv was great. The players were great. The crowd was great. The venue was great. I was very impressed overall and hope to be a part of this next year! Awesome job Richie and to everyone else involved (JC/Sarah/Wes/etc)... Looking forward to the AC show!  Kreygasm
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: DadsGlasses on August 05, 2015, 08:16:42 AM
I look forward to being able to order the Kong Off 4 DVD. I'm also looking forward to receiving the signed Kong Off 4 Marquee that I ordered. Lighted display box is ready to go!

Thanks again to everyone involved for offering up such a great event to the community. Next year I hope to attend in person.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: f_symbols on August 05, 2015, 09:55:30 AM
FWIW DadsGlasses, on Sunday, we all signed a LOT of marquees, they were not forgotten :)
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: DadsGlasses on August 05, 2015, 12:39:14 PM
FWIW DadsGlasses, on Sunday, we all signed a LOT of marquees, they were not forgotten :)

Very cool!  I'm looking forward to it. I was pissed that I wasn't able to attend, but glad that I got to buy a piece of memorabilia which hopefully helped offset at least a small portion of upfront costs.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: LMDAVE on August 05, 2015, 12:46:23 PM
I had no idea Robbie had a first man million game, so that's been done now. <Thumbs up>
 
I agree that the high score contest is what Kong is all about. I wasn't there to see the tension from the crowd watching the brackets, so I don't know if it was a hit or not. But, also, in head-to-head it's pointless to play after you've won. These guys arent playing their normal game when it's head to head, so it's a waste of time seeing it go to the end.



Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: xelnia on August 05, 2015, 01:23:32 PM
People don't realize just how much work was involved and while small MINOR issues may have occurred

Let's be realistic here. I would wager the vast majority of people who are interested in this hobby and event DO realize how much work goes into it. The streaming issue was not minor.

Everyone involved in this discussion needs to remember two things: 1) Don't mistake disappointment for ungratefulness. 2) You either do something right, or you don't. There is no middle ground in life.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: danman123456 on August 05, 2015, 02:38:19 PM
People don't realize just how much work was involved and while small MINOR issues may have occurred

Let's be realistic here. I would wager the vast majority of people who are interested in this hobby and event DO realize how much work goes into it. The streaming issue was not minor.

Everyone involved in this discussion needs to remember two things: 1) Don't mistake disappointment for ungratefulness. 2) You either do something right, or you don't. There is no middle ground in life.

True it probably should have not streamed at all the first few days. I haven't seen the bill for my mifi but i have a feeling its going to be $150 - $200 if JC's $45 overage is any indication FailFish  - The issue with streaming is the biggest one and I'm looking at options for it next year.  Anyone with any ideas on it please feel free to hit me up with them. It just needs some more planning to be more readily accessible and available which I do think is possible.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: johnbart on August 05, 2015, 03:41:11 PM
I don't know what the wifi setup was at the event but having experience at bigger shows like PAX I can say that net access isn't easy or cheap.  When you're dealing with most convention style settings you have a couple big issues with cell based wifi:

1. You're typically stuck in a big concrete box which limits signal to the point of being very unusable.
2. You've also got a bunch of people in the same spot hitting probably the same one local cell tower which also affects connectivity serious.

For this reason most events provide the option to get wifi from a local network but it tends to be very pricey.  Typical charge for a day of wifi access at a major show is $1500-$2000.  I don't know what the options were at this venue but I would wager it's not as simple as grabbing a cheap personal wifi hotpot and making a go of it.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: hooch66 on August 06, 2015, 04:14:02 AM
Carnegie Mellon is right there and there has to be an overlap of the programming guys there and guys into stuff like arcade games. I bet they'd be willing to help find a solution.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: TeaJay on August 06, 2015, 04:59:59 PM
Hey guys, TJ here. It was awesome meeting everyone at Kong Off 4. As a first time spectator of the Kong Off and being there in person, I've got nothing to say but positive things. Overall, I think everything went very well as an in-person spectator. There was one thing that I wish we had for the Kong Off that I noticed Walter's tournament was using... which was a web-based scoreboard.

How cool would it have been for both online and in-person spectators to get up-to-date information about the big games players were having throughout the weekend?

If we had an online scoreboard with a simple user interface for both the data submitters (passworded access) and the spectators, so that we can track various players’ games throughout the day… how awesome would that be?

We could have someone be a dedicated score/data submitter for the web-based scoreboard (I’d be willing to do it, I plan on attending next year baring life altering events; we could also have Dan or JC doing it when they aren’t playing). What things would you all be interested in tracking?

--------------
Player Names,
Current Game Score (updated every 10-20 minutes [Simply have someone walk up the line and write down the scores and just update them on the computer]),
Current Level,
Kill-Screen Total (per day and overall event),
Million Point Games Total Count and Score(s) (per day and overall event)
Top Score (per day and overall event),
Overall Ranking… anything else?
--------------

We could have a dedicated TV screen near the merch-booth showing off the scoreboard. The scoreboard tool could have filters, so if we want to see who did well on a certain day etc. we could apply filters and get into the nitty-gritty.

I’m a software developer by profession, and whipping something together like this shouldn’t be difficult and I’d love to somehow give back to all you guys who made me feel welcome at the event. I’ve got a whole year to put something together, which is plenty of time and I could get started rather soon. It could be a fun side project…. However I’d like to see what you guys think.

Just brain-dump your thoughts!
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: mikegmi2 on August 07, 2015, 05:21:58 AM
People don't realize just how much work was involved and while small MINOR issues may have occurred

Let's be realistic here. I would wager the vast majority of people who are interested in this hobby and event DO realize how much work goes into it. The streaming issue was not minor.

Everyone involved in this discussion needs to remember two things: 1) Don't mistake disappointment for ungratefulness. 2) You either do something right, or you don't. There is no middle ground in life.

True it probably should have not streamed at all the first few days. I haven't seen the bill for my mifi but i have a feeling its going to be $150 - $200 if JC's $45 overage is any indication FailFish  - The issue with streaming is the biggest one and I'm looking at options for it next year.  Anyone with any ideas on it please feel free to hit me up with them. It just needs some more planning to be more readily accessible and available which I do think is possible.

Regarding streaming, and the Periscope stream I had going a good portion of Fri/Sat,  in the end I used up about 4 Gb of data.  When I watched the replay, for DK the stream quality was good, as well as the sound (you could even hear stuff like Ethan walking by my cab announcing when Robbie took the lead, etc).  It's extremely simple, as all you need is your phone and the app.  The difficult part is making people aware of how to watch (have to follow on Twitter or Periscope).  A simple DKF thread with everyone's Periscope account could solve this though.  It's way easier than having a laptop, webcam, hotspot, etc...seems to use up less data...and setup consists of a cheap cell phone mount, and extension cord for phone charger.  Super easy.  I have AT&T and carried over 6Gb from the previous month, so data was also a non-issue.  You can also do other stuff like walk around and show the venue, and give a first person perspective of watching other players, which can't easily be done with a laptop/webcam.  I thought with all the people walking around, the stream would drop or lose signal, but streaming over 4G/LTE was also a non-issue.
Periscope also gives you the option to save your entire stream to memory when it ends, and regardless, all broadcasts are available for 24 hours on your account page from the time they end.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: mikegmi2 on August 07, 2015, 05:35:08 AM
Hey guys, TJ here. It was awesome meeting everyone at Kong Off 4. As a first time spectator of the Kong Off and being there in person, I've got nothing to say but positive things. Overall, I think everything went very well as an in-person spectator. There was one thing that I wish we had for the Kong Off that I noticed Walter's tournament was using... which was a web-based scoreboard.

How cool would it have been for both online and in-person spectators to get up-to-date information about the big games players were having throughout the weekend?

If we had an online scoreboard with a simple user interface for both the data submitters (passworded access) and the spectators, so that we can track various players’ games throughout the day… how awesome would that be?

We could have someone be a dedicated score/data submitter for the web-based scoreboard (I’d be willing to do it, I plan on attending next year baring life altering events; we could also have Dan or JC doing it when they aren’t playing). What things would you all be interested in tracking?

--------------
Player Names,
Current Game Score (updated every 10-20 minutes [Simply have someone walk up the line and write down the scores and just update them on the computer]),
Current Level,
Kill-Screen Total (per day and overall event),
Million Point Games Total Count and Score(s) (per day and overall event)
Top Score (per day and overall event),
Overall Ranking… anything else?
--------------

We could have a dedicated TV screen near the merch-booth showing off the scoreboard. The scoreboard tool could have filters, so if we want to see who did well on a certain day etc. we could apply filters and get into the nitty-gritty.

I’m a software developer by profession, and whipping something together like this shouldn’t be difficult and I’d love to somehow give back to all you guys who made me feel welcome at the event. I’ve got a whole year to put something together, which is plenty of time and I could get started rather soon. It could be a fun side project…. However I’d like to see what you guys think.

Just brain-dump your thoughts!

A scoreboard was tracked, but it was on Richie's mac which sat on the desk the whole time and got updated as the day went on.  An online scoreboard would most definitely be needed for next time, as I know many were asking for that.  I think what most would want is simply a leaderboard with top score of each player.  For the bracket day, the best thing would be to have a split-screen stream for each matchup (like they did for the KO3).  A guest announcer could even do commentary for each of the 4 matches.  Access to wifi/data upload becomes the most difficult issue here.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: danman123456 on August 07, 2015, 07:33:06 AM
Yeah my overall goal/impression Mike/TJ would be to have one place for ALL that information readily available for everyone both onsite and off. www.kongoff.com (http://www.kongoff.com) is my recommendation for this. Have all the streaming links/current scores/bracket info/etc there in one place and have it all updated online instead of a spreadsheet. I'm sure we can get this setup and working before next year  Kreygasm
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: WCopeland on August 07, 2015, 08:36:45 AM
Before this goes any further, I'm going to point out the elephant in the room.

It's fucking ridiculous that you guys are willing to put up money from your own pockets to take care of a problem the ReplayFX staff should take care of themselves. By you guys taking care of this, you're absolving ReplayFX of their own responsibility. You should not be focused on the organization and exposure of the event -- you should be focused on your own gameplay and actually performing in the event.

You are not paid, and unless ReplayFX hires you or reimburses your internet costs, there is no reason you should be doing this.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: danman123456 on August 07, 2015, 09:01:22 AM
Before this goes any further, I'm going to point out the elephant in the room.

It's fucking ridiculous that you guys are willing to put up money from your own pockets to take care of a problem the ReplayFX staff should take care of themselves. By you guys taking care of this, you're absolving ReplayFX of their own responsibility. You should not be focused on the organization and exposure of the event -- you should be focused on your own gameplay and actually performing in the event.

You are not paid, and unless ReplayFX hires you or reimburses your internet costs, there is no reason you should be doing this.

Well if that becomes part of it than sure but I don't think this is something that ReplayFX will provide. All of the vendors and attendees are usually responsible at some level for their own setups im sure. Most conferences and events like this do not provide internet and you have to get it yourself AFAIK. DLCC did have wireless internet available for free but it was capped at 0.75Mbs which is way to slow to try and stream from. I would imagine they would expect the people handling the kongoff to handle the internet/streaming stuff which means any streaming/scoreboards/etc? If not I am all for trying to get them to focus on it. They did provide the TV's and GoPro cameras I believe and did they do the setup for the Walter Day tournament? If so that would be perfect from a scoreboard perspective. I am not so worried about getting paid and I won't use my own mifi data plan up this time. I thought I could get away with just the weekend but whoops was that wrong :)
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: PAPA_Doug on August 11, 2015, 09:56:51 AM
Before this goes any further, I'm going to point out the elephant in the room.

It's fucking ridiculous that you guys are willing to put up money from your own pockets to take care of a problem the ReplayFX staff should take care of themselves. By you guys taking care of this, you're absolving ReplayFX of their own responsibility. You should not be focused on the organization and exposure of the event -- you should be focused on your own gameplay and actually performing in the event.

You are not paid, and unless ReplayFX hires you or reimburses your internet costs, there is no reason you should be doing this.

ReplayFX took care of all the expenses associated with our stream. Anyone who wants to stream their own content would have to do the same.

That being said, we appreciate any suggestions or help on how to make it a better experience for everyone involved.
Title: Re: Official***** Kong Off 4 (July 30,31,Aug 1, 2)
Post by: DadsGlasses on August 14, 2015, 02:28:55 PM
Hung up my signed Marquee #2 in a lighted box today. Great addition to the game room.

Sorry for the bad pics.

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff444/CtTortoise/649AD74A-2C25-461D-B0CC-66D40C8CE56B_zpsujow2xnf.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/CtTortoise/media/649AD74A-2C25-461D-B0CC-66D40C8CE56B_zpsujow2xnf.jpg.html)

(http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff444/CtTortoise/0CD49FC0-3E58-43DC-A886-E3A523EBC10C_zpsotjy8zwl.jpg) (http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/CtTortoise/media/0CD49FC0-3E58-43DC-A886-E3A523EBC10C_zpsotjy8zwl.jpg.html)