Author Topic: DIP Switch / Difficulty Clarification  (Read 3909 times)

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Offline xelnia

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DIP Switch / Difficulty Clarification
« on: February 06, 2014, 11:45:31 PM »
Looking at the TG settings for DK3 has me a bit confused. I'm hoping George, Ben, or someone else can help clarify the settings.

The TG settings for both tournament and marathon tracks give the following settings for difficulty: "Medium [3]." The relevant DIP switches listed in these TG settings are: G=OFF and H=ON.

The only manual I can find gives the following DIPs for difficulty:

G=OFF and H=OFF: Easy (1)
G=ON and H=OFF: (2)
G=OFF and H=ON: (3)
G=ON and H=ON: Hard (4)

As you can see, the manual doesn't explicitly label any difficulty as "Medium." Obviously, the difficulty is meant to increase from 1 to 4. The fact that TG labels Difficulty 3 as "Medium" wouldn't be a problem if MAME hadn't labeled them differently.

MAME DIPs:

G=OFF and H=OFF: Easy
G=ON and H=OFF: Medium
G=OFF and H=ON: Hard
G=ON and H=ON: Hardest

So, assuming that DK3 is emulated properly in MAME and that the difficulties aren't swapped or mis-mapped, this means that "TG - Medium" is equivalent to "MAME - Hard."

There is also the question if the TG settings changed over time.

I'm hoping to eventually create some DK3 score lists so it would be helpful if I knew which scores I could compare across the various platforms. Thanks for your help!
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Offline TheSunshineFund

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Re: DIP Switch / Difficulty Clarification
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2014, 06:54:23 AM »
I think you have it right.

Arcade = 3
MAME = hard

I would defer to our resident DK3 expert though since I'm guessing he's the only one on the forum to have submitted an arcade score to TG and had to film dips, etc.

Difficulty settings from the 80's are a crapshoot.  I guarantee you that operators/arcades didn't check settings when they phoned up Walter or sent in a score to a mag.  This is why I am much more inclined to look at tourney scores from the 80's rather than the ones phoned in to Walter.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 06:58:25 AM by pwnasaurus »
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Re: DIP Switch / Difficulty Clarification
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2014, 07:21:49 AM »
The Donkey Kong 3 settings are screwed up for MAME, and Arcade.  The TG MAME world record for Donkey Kong 3 is in "Medium" MAME settings, and are not true arcade settings.  The TG world record for Arcade is what would be "Hard" in MAME.

So if you want to practice for arcade settings put the level on "Hard".  If you want to practice for MAME settings, put the level on "Medium".


Here is what I would love to see one day happen.  I would like to see all 4 settings tracked for Donkey Kong 3.   Easy, Medium, Hard, and Hardest (What MAME calls them)

Here is how the screw up happened.  In the Nintendo manual there is Level 1 "Easy" settings, and then there is Level 4 "Hard" settings.  So somehow you have two levels of medium.  I suppose they would be "Medium/Easy", and "Medium/Hard".   When translated to MAME Medium/Easy was now called "Medium", and Medium/Hard was now called "Hard".   My guess is the original TG person had hundreds of Arcade games to put requirements on MAME, and never really took the time to figure out that the two settings were different.
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Offline xelnia

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Re: DIP Switch / Difficulty Clarification
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2014, 07:23:06 AM »
Yeah, I'd like to see George weigh in since he probably has most experience playing and submitting on all difficulty levels. I also want to know what the specific differences are in the gameplay for each difficulty.

But that makes me wonder...the TG MAME settings call for "Medium" difficulty. So, are all TG MAME scores actually equivalent to Arcade Difficulty 2? And there are DK3 scores on MARP from the late 90s that have "TG" in the description, meaning that the players submitted those scores with what the believed to be TG settings at the time. Did TG even track DIPs for DK3 back then?

I know DK3 doesn't get the love that DK and DKjr get, but I think it's worthwhile to sort this kind of stuff out. DK3 is unique, not just because the style is a major departure from the rest of the games in the arcade DK series, but also because it has adjustable difficulty settings. I'd be interested to hear George's opinion (along with anyone else who has gone deep in the game) on what settings he feels are the most "appropriate" to compete on.

Edit: I posted this without seeing George's response.  ;D
"Do not criticize, question, suggest or opine anything about an upcoming CAG event, no matter how constructive or positive your intent may be. You will find nothing but pain and frustration, trust me. Just go, or don't go, and :-X either way!" -ChrisP, 3/29/15
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Offline xelnia

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Re: DIP Switch / Difficulty Clarification
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2014, 07:28:49 AM »
Here is what I would love to see one day happen.  I would like to see all 4 settings tracked for Donkey Kong 3.   Easy, Medium, Hard, and Hardest (What MAME calls them)

What are your PBs on the various settings, George? Have you tried "marathon" and "tournament/5-man" on all the settings? What about "extreme/1-man" scores?
"Do not criticize, question, suggest or opine anything about an upcoming CAG event, no matter how constructive or positive your intent may be. You will find nothing but pain and frustration, trust me. Just go, or don't go, and :-X either way!" -ChrisP, 3/29/15
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Re: DIP Switch / Difficulty Clarification
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2014, 07:38:38 AM »
I'd be interested to hear George's opinion (along with anyone else who has gone deep in the game) on what settings he feels are the most "appropriate" to compete on.

Edit: I posted this without seeing George's response.  ;D

I personally wish competition settings were on "Easy".   I wish it was that way for all arcade games.   

As far as personal bests are concerned.  Here it goes.

Donkey Kong 3 MAME Easy 13.9 million
Donkey Kong 3 MAME Medium 6.1 million, I did get 6.6 million at RU, and I think those were on "Medium" MAME settings.
Donkey Kong 3 MAME Hard 5.9 million, Donkey Kong 3 Arcade Hard 8.7 million
Donkey Kong 3 MAME Hardest 2.3 million I think

I should note something.  When playing on MAME I play on keyboard, and I play with the buttons it defaults to.  So spray with my left hand, and controls with my right hand.  So basically I am playing left handed when I play MAME.  I play right handed when I use the Arcade controls.  For me Arcade controls are much, much, much easier than keyboard controls.

Edit:  I did use an arcade control panel to get my 13.9 million Easy score for MAME.
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Offline syscrusher

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Re: DIP Switch / Difficulty Clarification
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2014, 02:00:26 AM »
Played some DK3 on medium at GGA today for BotA practice.  It's definitely harder than medium in MAME.  Anyone in the BotA practicing in MAME should make sure it's set to hard.
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Offline Chuckie egg

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Re: DIP Switch / Difficulty Clarification
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2014, 09:44:50 PM »
Hi George, do you have a dedicated donkey kong 3 or do you just play on mame at home ?
And I take it the difficulty Settings on real hard ware are on hard ?
Many thanks
Alex

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Re: DIP Switch / Difficulty Clarification
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2014, 05:22:27 AM »
I no longer have a dedicated DK3 machine, and yes the difficulty settings for the TG Arcade record are on hard setting in regards to MAME. :)
"Perception forged in delusion and refined by pain"

-Ross Benzinger

"It's like we are able to play beautiful music out there, but no one can hear the instruments"

-Leon Shepard
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