Author Topic: Let's discuss Remix competition settings.  (Read 3784 times)

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Offline WCopeland

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Let's discuss Remix competition settings.
« on: June 17, 2016, 01:23:39 AM »
While I'm certainly no expert yet, I think I've finally got a solid enough grasp on Remix to at least broach this topic. I'd like to get some thoughts on what the default competition settings for this game should be. This is not an official poll by any means -- just a place to discuss.

With version 1.00 (Set 1), I think starting with ~5 guys was certainly reasonable, but with the changes that 1.01 (Set 2) brings I think that setting is questionable.

There are a few reasons why I think starting with 3 guys similar to DK is a better approach for Set 2 (which I assume going forward will be the standard "competition" romset).

  • Set 2 is an order of magnitude easier than Set 1. Playing on the same 5 man setting really doesn't make any sense in my honest opinion. The machine at Brofest was set to 3 man instead of 5 man, and after fewer than 10 credits I was already able to hit nearly 300k.
  • The game is already too damn long. A high-pace game of DK already is cutting it close. Bonus stages, while awesome, exacerbate the issue. The game length is one of my two overall pain points about the game, and I feel like going from 5-man start to 3-man start greatly alleviates this issue. If this game were released in the arcades in the 80s, you would never see one set to 5 man just because of the fact that even the act of willingly killing your guys off takes quite a bit of time with so many in reserve.
  • Three guys to start will make the game more competitive. With fewer guys in reserve, I believe the scoreboard will see a lower variance in scores between skill brackets, and this will ultimately result in players getting closer to the skill ceiling as they push to move from one skill bracket to the next.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 01:34:15 AM by WCopeland »
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Offline tilt

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Re: Let's discuss Remix competition settings.
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2016, 04:42:15 AM »
(Reserving this post for now, I will write more about this topic soon.)

If anyone wishes to change their vote for competitive settings, I will leave the poll up in order for different opinions to be expressed.

You can vote for the remix defaults here: http://donkeykongforum.com/index.php?topic=1536.0
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Offline WCopeland

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Re: Let's discuss Remix competition settings.
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2016, 06:24:05 AM »
Was that poll started before the release of Set 2? If so, it needs to be thrown out.
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Offline timhett

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Re: Let's discuss Remix competition settings.
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2016, 06:25:07 AM »
Two cents from a non DK player who was destroyed by Remix at Funspot...
If you are talking about competition settings, I'm always in favor of making it hard and short.   3+1 men, bonus hard
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Offline tilt

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Re: Let's discuss Remix competition settings.
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2016, 09:22:03 AM »
Was that poll started before the release of Set 2? If so, it needs to be thrown out.
I started the poll after the majority of the people had remix set 2.  I have left it open for so long for the reasons you stated, and I am not sure if 5 man is the best either.  If people want to change their votes, I invite them to do so.  I will keep it open until a consensus is shown after this thread settles down.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 09:23:38 AM by tilt »
My stream is currently (http://www.twitch.tv/expandedidea/)
PB(s):
Donkey Kong: 1,004,100 (KS)
Donkey kong Hard roms(prev. world record): 914,200
Crazy Kong: 513,700 (KS)
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Offline danman123456

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Re: Let's discuss Remix competition settings.
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2016, 09:39:27 AM »
The poll isnt specific about versions.

I think it needs to be separated by version:
5+150k normal is good for 1.0
3+150k normal is good for 1.1+

Dan
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Offline aarontruitt

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Re: Let's discuss Remix competition settings.
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2016, 11:18:14 AM »
What if I have my settings set to 5-man, but I have a really good game and only use 3 of them...? Can I still submit to 3-man?

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Offline ChrisP

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Re: Let's discuss Remix competition settings.
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2016, 11:19:39 AM »
 Kappa
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4 Quarters :-* - 800K Avg. Per Qtr. :o - No Restarts 8) - No Proof :'(

7/26/2013   Coin 35,946   710,800   18-1
7/28/2013   Coin 35,947   903,700   22-1
8/16/2013   Coin 35,948   694,100   17-6
8/17/2013   Coin 35,949   893,100   22-1

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Offline f_symbols

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Re: Let's discuss Remix competition settings.
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2016, 11:56:54 AM »
<YSG>
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Offline tilt

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Re: Let's discuss Remix competition settings.
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2016, 01:00:13 PM »
The poll isnt specific about versions.

I think it needs to be separated by version:
5+150k normal is good for 1.0
3+150k normal is good for 1.1+

Dan
I think 5+150k was generally considered to be perfect for v1.  The poll was more a guage for default settings for the soon-to-be most commonly played version of remix(1.1), if not already.
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PB(s):
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Donkey kong Hard roms(prev. world record): 914,200
Crazy Kong: 513,700 (KS)
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Online Sock Master

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Re: Let's discuss Remix competition settings.
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2016, 10:33:02 PM »
The 5 man +150K setting was of course chosen with the original 1.00 version of DK Remix in mind.

It's still the best v1.01 general setting for most people as they'd never see all of the stages otherwise.

For competition settings... I think 3 man +150K may eventually win out once more people are familiar with the game and it's strategies.   It made sense at Funspot Brofest because the average play time had to be kept short.   The settings there were even more severe there to make sure extra Jumpmen didn't rack up (3 man, 35K, +every additonal 350K)

Personally, I don't think there will ever be very many kill screens at 3 man settings, though.   The game doesn't quite plateau at L=05 like Donkey Kong does and the board variations get pretty brutal around L=07 and L=15.
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Offline ChrisP

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Re: Let's discuss Remix competition settings.
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2016, 04:39:07 PM »
I would be fine with 3+15K+150K.  :)

Mostly because that's where the sentiment seems to be going, and because honestly, I don't think there's a huge difference between starting with 3 lives and starting with 5. Even in DK I don't think starting with more lives makes as much of a difference as people think it does, since it doesn't much change the ratio of lives to boards. To reach 22-1 on 3+1, you have to clear 113 of the 116 boards on your first shot. To reach 22-1 on 6+1, you have to clear 110 of the 116 boards on your first shot. 97.5% vs. 94.8%. A+ vs. A. Either way, you're not gonna get there without the skillz. (This is NOT an argument for switching competition to 6+1, btw, it's just an observation. A few more lives makes  getting through the game easier, but not *that* much easier, especially when you factor in the occasional total screwing.) 3+1 is more masochistic, and ensures that fewer runs will reach the end, but I'm convinced that masochism is part of the dark psychological underbelly of why we play this shit. :) 

Anyway, Remix is probably slightly more screwing-prone than DK, but if you manage to crack 1M on Remix with 15K+150Kr, you'll have gotten SEVEN extra lives, which more than makes up for it. That's still super-lenient.

The only thing I don't like about going to 3+extras is that it moves us off of the defaults, and when you move off of defaults, people invariably use the wrong settings. But that's a pretty minor complaint.
http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com

4 Quarters :-* - 800K Avg. Per Qtr. :o - No Restarts 8) - No Proof :'(

7/26/2013   Coin 35,946   710,800   18-1
7/28/2013   Coin 35,947   903,700   22-1
8/16/2013   Coin 35,948   694,100   17-6
8/17/2013   Coin 35,949   893,100   22-1

3,201,700: the $1 World Record?
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Offline f_symbols

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Re: Let's discuss Remix competition settings.
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2016, 07:02:00 PM »
Let us not forget there is hard mode; John had mentioned that he always indented hard mode for competition.  Perhaps we should save the brutal masochism (3+1+0) for the "hard track".
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Offline ChrisP

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Re: Let's discuss Remix competition settings.
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2016, 08:03:48 PM »
To reach 22-1 on 3+1, you have to clear 113 of the 116 boards on your first shot. To reach 22-1 on 6+1, you have to clear 110 of the 116 boards on your first shot. 97.5% vs. 94.8%. A+ vs. A.

I'm gonna argue with myself here for a second. I know I was talking about DK, but it's relevant to this discussion.

If you do this math another way, and not "percentage of boards you have to complete on your first shot", the difference is more dramatic.

If you have 3 chances to die before 22-1, that means you have to survive an average of 39 boards per man. If you have 6 chances to die before 22-1, you only have to survive 19 boards per man. That's a large difference.

What are you smoking, ChrisP?

Though, I will agree with your statement that you cannot get to the end, whether on 3+1 or 6+1, without just as firm a command of technique.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 08:05:34 PM by ChrisP »
http://donkeykongblog.blogspot.com

4 Quarters :-* - 800K Avg. Per Qtr. :o - No Restarts 8) - No Proof :'(

7/26/2013   Coin 35,946   710,800   18-1
7/28/2013   Coin 35,947   903,700   22-1
8/16/2013   Coin 35,948   694,100   17-6
8/17/2013   Coin 35,949   893,100   22-1

3,201,700: the $1 World Record?
Twitch TV  Streamer DK Killscreener Crazy Kong Killscreener DKF Blogger DK Jr. Killscreener