Author Topic: Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling  (Read 10505 times)

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Offline RichieKnucklez

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Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling
« on: March 21, 2015, 05:52:08 PM »
Topic; Kong Off 4 - Top 12.


I made a decision earlier this year to let Jeff and the DK Community decide who the top 12 should be.
I also handed Eric Tessler the reigns deciding the wild card bracket.
Lets start a discussion concerning this topic. also why the hell don't I HAVE an avatar up there ^  Brian Kuh? that pervert Mruczek?
I am hurt.   <thefinger>

Offline jwade614

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Re: Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2015, 10:55:34 PM »
So...how many DK machines are there?
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Offline ebinsugewa

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Re: Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2015, 12:04:21 AM »
Probably like 15,000 or so.
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Offline f_symbols

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Re: Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2015, 06:10:31 AM »
I think it would be a good idea for us to set up a KO4 planning stream;  A single hour of Q/A, informations, and constructive criticisms could really help us get a good idea of everyones' thoughts and concerns about the event.  Here are some things I'd imagine people are thinking about:

- Are we going to pick a host hotel? (Pickings are likely fairly slim as a product of the larger event)

- What will be the EXACT playing format of the event? (Do we want bracketed?, score based? Both?)

- How will we pick the top 12? (straight up, or arcade only?)

- Determine if we will have a true "wildcard" opportunity? (Allows a walk up to compete in the event via. some test of "skill")

- Confirm who will/won't attend the event?

- Set a "bump" deadline? (Changes in the top "12" that would cause a player guaranteed a machine to lose their spot)

- Do we want to plan any other events for the weekend? (Sports, amusement park, cuisine, etc.)

- A printing of the manual, at least in some context? (possibly to raise funds)

- Is anyone willing to donate the use of their machine for the event?* (The more machines we provide for Richie, the more people can play).

- Who knows wait and see?! :-) (I'm sure I missed plenty o' things)


I would be willing to host a planning stream (or series of streams) on my channel (not necessary), we could use hitbox to increase interaction potential  via. reduced lag. 

*With regards to letting your machine be used in the event: It involves some self sacrifice, but will REALLY go a long way to help the "community" and fill out the wildcard machine numbers (I will be donating my machine for use at the event and plan to use it).  If one chose to donate the use of their machine, and had a qualified spot, they could play on it; it's not like they're throwing their machine out into the wild...).   Richie had also mentioned that he would be putting little signs above the machines that were donated for use, to recognize the act of generosity.

tl;dr  There is a ton of issues surrounding KO4 that need to be Ironed out and the ball is in the communities' hands, we should get moving
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 08:21:03 AM by f_symbols »
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Offline konghusker

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Re: Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2015, 07:49:00 AM »
I would like to see the top 12 actually be the top 12.  Obviously Wiebe and Billy should always have their own machine as the celebrities, but I don't think they should count as two of the top 12 anymore.  That would lock down 14 dedicated machines, and then the rest of the machines can be wild cards.  The top 12 players are all so close in score now, that it would be a shame to leave 1 or 2 out when they are higher rank than billy or steve at this point.  Just my opinion, but I'm fine with whatever the community decides.
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Offline WCopeland

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Re: Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2015, 08:53:13 AM »
I would like to see the top 12 actually be the top 12.  Obviously Wiebe and Billy should always have their own machine as the celebrities, but I don't think they should count as two of the top 12 anymore.  That would lock down 14 dedicated machines, and then the rest of the machines can be wild cards.  The top 12 players are all so close in score now, that it would be a shame to leave 1 or 2 out when they are higher rank than billy or steve at this point.  Just my opinion, but I'm fine with whatever the community decides.

This. Obviously I'm biased, but I think the fact that the past two Kong Offs have been won by a MAME player makes any argument for arcade-only top 12 a bit ridiculous.  The community has accepted for a long time to merge MAME and Arcade into a single HSL -- I don't think that should change for tournaments unless we come to a consensus to change it on here as well.

Full disclosure: Pretty sure the only player who would be eliminated if it were Arcade Top 12 instead of combined Top 12 is me.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 08:55:23 AM by WCopeland »
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Offline Xermon54

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Re: Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2015, 09:25:23 AM »
I do agree with Steve Wiltshire. Steve Wiebe and Billy Mitchell should always have their own dedicated machine, but since they're not in Top 12, they shouldn't be included in the top 12. So technically, there would be a Top 12, + Billy and Steve, + the Wild Card.

And about the fact if MAME is accepted or not, right now, it only affects Wes (since all of the 11 other players have a score high enough done on arcade).

Dean has a 1,100,xxx on arcade, and Jeff Willms has 1,105m on Arcade, so their score are still top 12 with only arcade. However, even if their ARCADE score get kicked out of Top 12, they should still be in top 12 in my opinion. Jeff, being the Winner of the past (2) Kong Off's, should have his own machine only because of that. As for Dean, well, he did 1,206,800  Kappa

Personally, I think we should both accept MAME and Arcade score (combined), since it has been proven that MAME players can definitely adjust well on arcade. However, since pretty much every good players have their own DK machine at home, I would understand if people want to be Arcade-only (since everybody can now put a score on arcade because they have their own machine). The other exception (with Wes) would've been The Tudose, but I don't think The Tudose has the desire to participate in KO4 anyway.

That being said, I'm so fking hype for KO4. It's going to be so big big big! I can't wait to know more about the prizes and if there will be any media coverage of the event. Personally, I'm still in touch with Sam Rowe the UK journalist to try to bring him to KO4, so let's hope he will be able to attend  <Allen>

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Offline konghusker

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Re: Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2015, 11:52:14 AM »
I hope you didn't misunderstand me Wes.  I'm saying the top 12 on this site which includes mame.  I would include mame players for sure.  I never said Arcade only players in my above statement, just the top 12 overall.  Just wanted to clarify that. 
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 11:55:05 AM by konghusker »
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Offline WCopeland

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Re: Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2015, 12:12:46 PM »
No misunderstanding at all Steve, I was agreeing with you :)
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Offline marinomitch13

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Re: Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2015, 08:03:41 PM »
- A printing of the manual, at least in some context? (possibly to raise funds)

I don't have the funds right now, myself, to order enough manuals to make selling them for a low price feasible, but I have nothing against doing this if we can pull it off together. I'd be more than willing to organize some sort of printing options so that we, as a community, can decide what we want to do. And, just to be clear, I'd be willing to do this even if all the profit goes to help support/fund the KO4 in some way. It'd literally be maybe 5-10 hours total of my time (add about 20 pics to the latter portions of the manual and screen cap some printing options to share). I could have them shipped to Richie or wherever needed.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 08:05:45 PM by marinomitch13 »
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Offline danman123456

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Re: Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2015, 12:21:36 PM »
Yeah I would really love to know what decides what. I would be willing to get my machine KO4 ready and donate it but I also would like to participate too so I need to know what that is. Do we have it all dedicated or not? Is the more the merrier a good idea? When is the cut-off for top xxx?

All great questions.

August is becoming rapidly full for me anyway so I need to know what the deal is here. With BOTA/Vacation and now KO4 asking for all the time off will be fun :D

Dan
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Offline TheSunshineFund

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Re: Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2015, 07:04:10 PM »
The Sunday final for the CAG tourney is being handled in the same fashion.   Maybe it's a thing now.   <popcorn>
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Offline f_symbols

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Re: Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2015, 07:10:36 AM »
I will go ahead and take care of the  :-X in the room.

BibleThump Bracketed formats are not a good idea for the main event of any Kong Off  BibleThump 

Below I have listed some examples of why this particular format doesn't fit competitive Donkey Kong (from my perspective). 

1.  The early randomness of the game (first 14 screens) is FAR too varied for single or even double elimination to have any type of correlation to skill-sets; a "safe" start strategy involves multiple "coin-flip" situations that will ultimately change the way you play the rest of the game, especially if things go bad on these first 14 screens.

2.  The time vested to learn a "KS strategy" is no more than 1/8th the amount of time it takes the fastest learning players to achieve 1.1M "paces", with enough reliability to survive to the end.  It doesn't seem right that anyone playing for less than 3 months should legitimately have a chance at beating players that have 5-10x the time vested and 5-10x the "knowledge mastery" of the game, simply due to "event format"

3.  We will be rewarding players for using elementary techniques rather than advanced techniques, and essentially be favoring the less experienced player (or at least the player with the most experience "running boards", wait and see! :-) ). IMO, this belittles the title of the Kong Off, significantly.

4.  DK is already excellent for score-based events because of the "difficulty buffer", the game gets exponentially harder as you increase scoring rate (there's that much more risk to process); in a high score based event, the game already buffers against the best players while favoring a "safe" strategy.

5.  People are traveling a long, long way, to basically flip a coin.  A bracketed event does not reward players for pursuing "mastery" of the game and will likely be a turn-off for some of the big name players (understandable).  I feel that the Kong Off should represent the "Best" players of the game, rather than those who feel they have the best chance of executing the first strategies we learned to play the game (everyone starts with running boards).

6.  This format supports the players who don't actively play the game anymore or are just starting;  I understand that's exciting for the audience and the newcomers, but It's basically a slap in the face to those who are putting in the time (or have already) to achieve some level of mastery in this game.

SUMMARY:

Brackets are a cool way to get new players interested in coming to the Kong off (+1), They're also a great way to let the "older players"(+1) or players who are "rusty" (+1) still have a reason to come and compete in the events and they seem exciting for the audience (+1).  However, at the end of the day, week, month, year, decade, etc., the community is focused on ultimate HIGH SCORE, which truly IS a representation of ones acquired skills on DK.  There is way too much variance in the game to decide the annual world champion with single- or double-elimination coin tosses; a few hundred coin drops really do a great job to buffer against the RNG variance in DK.

I support the idea of a bracketed event that would appeal to the audience and the newer or rusty players as an accessory event; in my opinion it's simply a coin flip, with little to NO representation of the skills of the individual.  I definitely like the bracketed concept and think we should have one, just not to determine the Champion of the Kong Off. 

tl;dr It simply can't be the main event, it would completely belittle the accomplishment that is pursuing a higher score on this game, "how high can you get?".  I definitely like the brackets and think we should have them, just not to determine the Champion of the Kong Off. 

Realistically, we have 4 days of coin drops, we could easily slide this in as an accessory event and really keep everyone happy (the audience, the rusty old men Kappa and the new players)

EDIT:  I would like to again thank Richie for his countless acts of self sacrifice,  I do not want to sound "ungrateful" in any way,  I absolutely realize the amount of work that goes into these events, and no amount of "thanks" could ever express how valuable Richie is to the DK community.  I absolutely see the benefit of brackets from the "spectator" standpoint and would be all in favor of publicly doing the brackets to help grow the audience (ie. calling out names of competitors, posting bracket times, covering specific cabs to entertain the masses and doing commentary during the matches) but the "crowned King of KO4" shouldn't be decided by this format, in my opinion.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 07:59:57 AM by f_symbols »
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Offline Dk_madness

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Re: Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2015, 07:31:33 AM »
+1 Ethan.... I agree totally
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Offline dkshawn

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Re: Kong Off 4 machine gets rolling
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2015, 08:27:44 AM »
Interesting. Kinda reminds me of wrestling belts like a heavyweight championship vs other championship belts like say lightweight. Maybe certain high scores would qualify for different divisions. Just food for thought. Although i dont agree so much with the early level analysis. Although you cant coin flip multiple starts like going for personal best, during a competition, your skill should still allow you to perform at a high pace. Also i think the randomness of when the fireballs climb ladders to stop you from pressing the top box factors in a lot to your final score.
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