Author Topic: What do we want to see in "Direct Feed" submissions?  (Read 2802 times)

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Offline xelnia

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What do we want to see in "Direct Feed" submissions?
« on: September 07, 2015, 07:37:21 AM »
Mates, cobbas, friends, and <Allen>

We now have our first "direct feed" submission to DKF! For those that haven't seen, Chris Gleed (YesAffinity) has put together a system for directly capturing and recording the video and audio from his DK PCB, eliminating the need for a camera. He documented the process here. And the submission(s) are here.

Because his process was so well-documented, and because he includes a webcam feed of himself playing I plan on adding this score to the 1-1 High Score List. But I know there are other players interested in creating similar setups. With that in mind, I think we should discuss the minimum requirements for evidence. Direct feeds already have a somewhat dubious reputation...  <Billy>

Here are some requirements I'm considering. Please weigh in.

1) A player's first direct feed submission must include an overview of their setup, similar to how players would show their PCB, 4-way restrictor, etc. for their initial submissions.
2) The submission must contain audio.
3) The submission must contain an accompanying webcam feed showing the player playing the game.
"Do not criticize, question, suggest or opine anything about an upcoming CAG event, no matter how constructive or positive your intent may be. You will find nothing but pain and frustration, trust me. Just go, or don't go, and :-X either way!" -ChrisP, 3/29/15
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Offline YesAffinity

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Re: What do we want to see in "Direct Feed" submissions?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 08:40:20 AM »
Thanks for the credit and for accepting my score, Jeremy.  I am hoping this new development doesn't lead to any heartburn for you. :)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 11:19:10 AM by YesAffinity »
Matthew 21:22

DK Arcade PB (verified): 970,200 KS
DK Start PB (verified): 126,600
DK L1-1 PB (verified): 11,400
DK PB 1st Man: 622,000

www.twitch.tv/yesaffinity/
DK Blog: http://donkeykongforum.com/index.php?topic=1357.0
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Offline p2dose

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Re: What do we want to see in "Direct Feed" submissions?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2015, 10:37:33 AM »
2) The submission must contain audio.

:)

Offline YesAffinity

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Re: What do we want to see in "Direct Feed" submissions?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2015, 11:21:12 AM »
2) The submission must contain audio.

:)
This raises another question.  Does the audio have to be webcam audio, direct feed audio, either or both?

I disabled the webcam audio on recent feeds, because although I could get OBS to cause the webcam video to delay enough to closely match the direct feed video, I couldn't figure out how to delay the webcam audio.  This resulted in webcam audio, including button smashes, cabinet speaker and my typical cursings of kong and firefoxes, occuring about a half second ahead of the direct feed audio.  I thought it was kinda annoying, so disabled it, but realize it could be useful or even necessary for authentication.
Matthew 21:22

DK Arcade PB (verified): 970,200 KS
DK Start PB (verified): 126,600
DK L1-1 PB (verified): 11,400
DK PB 1st Man: 622,000

www.twitch.tv/yesaffinity/
DK Blog: http://donkeykongforum.com/index.php?topic=1357.0
DK Killscreener Twitch TV  Streamer DKF Blogger

Offline xelnia

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Re: What do we want to see in "Direct Feed" submissions?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2015, 04:57:20 PM »
Bumping this thread so we can get more feedback.
"Do not criticize, question, suggest or opine anything about an upcoming CAG event, no matter how constructive or positive your intent may be. You will find nothing but pain and frustration, trust me. Just go, or don't go, and :-X either way!" -ChrisP, 3/29/15
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Offline xelnia

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Re: What do we want to see in "Direct Feed" submissions?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2015, 10:04:29 PM »
Couple of thoughts...

1) I use a Hauppauge capture device to stream games occasionally so I'm familiar with the difficulties of using Hauppauge devices with OBS. Trying to direct capture the video feed with OBS usually ends up in a severe audio desync, so I actually have to screen capture the Hauppauge video software itself...  <confused> The new OBS Multiplatform seems to work better but I haven't used it enough make any clear determination.

2) Chris, what is your process at the very beginning of a streaming session? I've looked and it seems that the game is already running when you fire up the stream. I would be interested to see if cycling the power on the DK shows the rug pattern garbage, or if the feed cuts out temporarily. One of the noticeable features of DK in MAME is how the rug pattern is always a series of colored zeroes. If we're able to see a clear "arcade garbage" rug pattern when the power is cycled then that would be another great piece of supporting evidence.

EDIT: I just finished watching Chris' 919,000 KS, and he does a reset at the end which shoes the rug pattern.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 01:01:16 AM by xelnia »
"Do not criticize, question, suggest or opine anything about an upcoming CAG event, no matter how constructive or positive your intent may be. You will find nothing but pain and frustration, trust me. Just go, or don't go, and :-X either way!" -ChrisP, 3/29/15
Twitch TV  Streamer DKF Blogger DK Killscreener Crazy Kong Killscreener

Offline YesAffinity

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Re: What do we want to see in "Direct Feed" submissions?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2015, 04:58:21 PM »
My process is:

1) Turn on game.
2) Open capture device with VLC.  The video is slightly shaky on the cab monitor at startup, although barely noticeable.  However, this shows up very noticeably in the capture.  It takes a few minutes for the shakes to go away.  I could go into my theories on why it happens on both cabinet monitor and via edge connector capture, but that conversation aside I let the shakes work out before starting the OBS stream.  Also, the direct feed is rotated 90 degrees, as it should be.  VLC has a function that allows rotation of the video (Tools->Effects and Filters->Video Effects->Geometry->Transform), which allows it to display "upright".
3) Open OBS.  Do a monitor capture of the screen with VLC running full screen.

I was using a Hauppauge device, which was streaming both audio and video to VLC.  As you undoubtedly noticed Jeremy (and any other viewers of my direct feed submissions), the video and the audio are glitchy.  It seems like they are constantly trying to sync with each other and constantly playing catch up to each other.

I have started using a sabrent PCI card for video, with audio feeding my Creative sound card line in.  The video and audio are smooth.  The process is generally the same as above, but monitor capturing the video displayed in VLC, and using the Creative line in as OBS's default mic/auxilliary input.  As you can imagine, the video lags behind the audio by default.  Some tweaking in OBS got the "offsets" to be pretty close.  Only problem with the Sabrent card in VLC is that VLC only allows 320x240 resolution.

:edit: I don't mean to take this off topic, but here is a stream of the capture from the Sabrent card, illustrating what I'm talking about above.  It starts out with the shaky video issue, and the shakes go away somewhere around 2:30.  I also power-cycled the cabinet around 3:58, for everyone's edification that the rug pattern shows at startup.
http://www.twitch.tv/yesaffinity/v/17310179

Neither setup is perfect, and my search continues for something a little more foolproof.  Hopefully this doesn't discourage folks from going the direct feed route, but it is definitely something for a hobbyist/enthusiast with the time to dedicate to making it work.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 05:21:08 PM by YesAffinity »
Matthew 21:22

DK Arcade PB (verified): 970,200 KS
DK Start PB (verified): 126,600
DK L1-1 PB (verified): 11,400
DK PB 1st Man: 622,000

www.twitch.tv/yesaffinity/
DK Blog: http://donkeykongforum.com/index.php?topic=1357.0
DK Killscreener Twitch TV  Streamer DKF Blogger