Donkey Kong Forum

Related Games => Donkey Kong Remixed => Topic started by: Sock Master on January 11, 2016, 07:34:38 PM

Title: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Sock Master on January 11, 2016, 07:34:38 PM
This just happened so I don't have full verification or details yet, but it's possible that there may be a compatibility issue if your DK PCB has a certain variant of the Z80 chip.

I don't know if this is common or rare yet.  I have investigating to do.

If you have a Z80 chip labelled "NEC D780C" on your DK PCB, the Remix board may not function correctly.

The solution most likely is to switch the Z80 with a different one.  My DK PCB has a "SHARP LH0080A Z80A-CPU"

Basically, I think anything that ends with an "A" will be fine.  A Z80 chip with a number ending with a "C" might not be.


If people can check their DK PCBs to see how common a "C" type chip is, I would be extremely grateful.  (especially anyone who's already waiting for their board to arrive)

If it's common, I'm going to maybe include a Z80A with each Remix board but it's going to delay things.


I'm sorry everyone.  I'm going to do everything I can to fix this.

Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Shnypz on January 12, 2016, 06:26:15 AM
SHARP LH0080A Z80A-CPU over here
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: danman123456 on January 12, 2016, 11:51:52 AM
Yeah it was odd but looking here not sure there is a big difference. Both are 4Mhz. Hopefully its some issue with the Z80c vs a.

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/346/NEC_Z80_4_MHz_(D780C-1)_vs_Sharp_Z80_4_MHz_(LH0080AH).html (http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/346/NEC_Z80_4_MHz_(D780C-1)_vs_Sharp_Z80_4_MHz_(LH0080AH).html)

Dan
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Sock Master on January 12, 2016, 12:41:35 PM
I found a piece of hardware that had an NEC D780C in it and pulled the chip out.
It does the same thing that was happening to you when I tried it in the DK Remix board.

So that's pretty definitive.  Something is different with the D780C, something about it's signal timing I suspect.

I'm trying hardware & firmware tests to see if I can find some sort of solution to make it work properly, but no success yet.  For now it seems this chip is simply not compatible with the DK Remix board.
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: f_symbols on January 12, 2016, 03:11:44 PM
I just checked all 3 of my pcbs, all acquired from different sources at different times, and they all have the z80a; it's likely that this will be a very isolated occurrence.
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Scoundrl on January 12, 2016, 04:09:59 PM
Manual specs z80a FWIW
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Sock Master on January 12, 2016, 04:17:35 PM
It's probably something subtle as the C seems to work fine if I plug it into the DK board by itself.  I haven't been able to figure it out *yet*, but I have one to test now.

I ordered a few Z80A just in case someone will need one for/with their Remix board, but they probably won't arrive for a month.
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: CrazyKongFan on January 12, 2016, 05:44:51 PM
I've got 2 4-board PCB's. The one in my cocktail with the D2K board has a Sharp LH0080A, the spare one that partially works (CLK and VID boards both have issues, but the CPU board works fine) has an NEC Z80C. Looking at some of my other non-DK boards that use a Z80, there's mostly a mix of Sharp LH0080A's, NEC Z80C's and Zilog Z80A's. They probably used whatever they could get cheapest or was readily available when they were assembling boards.
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Simpsons99 on January 12, 2016, 07:12:16 PM
I know  I have 2 DK Board sets .. One Needs a Z80 Replaced on it ..  The chips you have spoken of are not on Ebay .
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: tilt on January 13, 2016, 12:51:23 PM
My pcb has a Sharp Z80-A
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Gettysburg1863 on January 13, 2016, 02:03:24 PM
Mine has the SHARP .....A
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: danman123456 on January 13, 2016, 05:29:58 PM
I know  I have 2 DK Board sets .. One Needs a Z80 Replaced on it ..  The chips you have spoken of are not on Ebay .

Brian I ordered a Sharp Z80A on Ebay for $9.99 + $2.50 shipping from a us seller. There are tons of them on eBay :)
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Gettysburg1863 on January 15, 2016, 01:32:16 PM
My chip is installed (Remix only, no Deranged) and went in without a hitch, seated the entire way down. Works flawlessly. Thank you Sock, you rule!
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: ChrisP on January 15, 2016, 02:18:59 PM
Uh oh, bad news for ChrisP!

I knew there was a reason I decided to hang back and wait for the second round of these!  ;D

Oh well, I'll pull out my Junior PCB, or my Popeye, and see if they'll work. :)
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: f_symbols on January 15, 2016, 08:49:30 PM
omg dat mad face doe  <mad>
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Sock Master on January 26, 2016, 04:49:25 PM
A small order of Sharp Z80A chips came in today, so I'll have a few on-hand if someone with the incompatible NEC chip wants to order DK Remix.

They cost me 10$ each so I can just add it at cost if someone needs one.
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Simpsons99 on January 26, 2016, 05:50:25 PM
I need one for my 2nd dk board set
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Sock Master on January 27, 2016, 10:05:18 PM
It seems I made a grave error when I ordered those chips and didn't notice that they were Sharp LH0084A chips instead of Sharp LH0080A chips, and they're not CPUs at all, but some other peripheral chip.

So, I have useless chips and no Z80As for people with the NEC chip...   (insert angry face here)
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Simpsons99 on January 28, 2016, 12:21:55 PM
any idea when next set of boards are going to be ready?
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Sock Master on January 28, 2016, 12:46:35 PM
I'm kinda starting to pull my hair out because the chip I'm waiting for to complete the boards is quite late at actually getting here.   Whenever it actually comes in, I can start shipping more boards the next day after.

The next set *after* this set should not take so long.
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Simpsons99 on January 28, 2016, 01:09:07 PM
that's great!  have you found someone else to buy the chips from?
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Sock Master on January 28, 2016, 01:30:23 PM
Yeah, I got tired of waiting so I ordered more chips from a different supplier.
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Capone27 on February 24, 2016, 07:28:54 PM
Got my remix board today!
Didn't check before hand I have the nec z80 chip....

Not to worried about it, I plan to buy another board set.

My question is can I take the z80 chip from my Dkjr or Dk3?

Thanks
Capone
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Sock Master on February 24, 2016, 08:18:53 PM
Yes, if you have another arcade PCB that has a Zilog, Sharp or other Z80/Z80A CPU in it, it'll work if you move that chip into your DK/Remix board.  Chances are the NEC D780C will probably work fine in the other arcade PCB as well.

Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: ChrisP on February 24, 2016, 08:19:11 PM
Yes. I had a Z80-C in my DK, and a Z80-A in my Junior and my Popeye.

I put my Popeye's Z80-A into the Remix board, put the Z80-C into Popeye, and everything is fine. DK likes the Z80-A that was in Popeye, and Popeye likes the Z80-C that was in DK.
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Capone27 on February 24, 2016, 08:54:06 PM
Awesome!  Thanks!

Capone
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Sock Master on August 28, 2017, 11:05:01 AM
I probably should have added an update to this thread some time back..

I spent most of 2016 testing all sorts of things, looking into clues to figuring out solutions to the NEC-D780C compatibility issue.

Throughout 2016 I built prototypes trying out all sorts of parts from different manufacturers, made slight changes to the timing in the microcontroller firmware code, etc... Every now and then a Remix kit showed signs of improved NEC-D780C compatibility and I took note.

By the end of 2016, compatibility improved bit by bit.  If I used exactly a certain combination of parts from certain manufacturers it started being NEC-D780C compatible.

At the start of 2017 pretty much all Remix kits I built were NEC compatible.  Around DK Jr Remix's release, all Remix kits were NEC compatible.
Right now, even if some DK Remix vendors might still state they're not compatible with the NEC-D780C on their web site, they actually are.

It took time to work out all the clues because of the complex interactions between different signals across different chips from different manufacturers, but even the NEC-D780C plays nice now.
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: danman123456 on August 28, 2017, 02:04:30 PM
Nice sir!!!
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: ChrisP on August 28, 2017, 03:37:22 PM
I'm actually really glad you mentioned this, because I haven't yet gotten around to getting my DK Junior Remix, and I had to swap Z80s to make the original Remix work on my DK PCB.

Or was it Popeye I swapped with?  ;D

Well, at any rate, useful info...
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: YesAffinity on August 29, 2017, 08:49:34 AM
Congrats on puzzling out the fix!
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: danman123456 on August 29, 2017, 11:18:50 AM
It was me who first broke it bwhahaha :D   BibleThump
Title: Re: IMPORTANT: Possible incompatibity issue with DK Remix board
Post by: Sock Master on August 29, 2017, 06:33:26 PM
It was me who first broke it bwhahaha :D   BibleThump

Ah, fun times.  I almost had a heart attack watching one of the very first boards glitch out, live, on stream.  haha

It was good to find out as soon as possible, and also live I guess, because it helped to figure out it was the NEC Z80 right away.

Later, I went and got myself a pretty janky DK PCB, found the most marginal Z80 chip I could find, and that's what I use for testing.   If it works on this janky setup, it's going to work no matter what.