Author Topic: Top 5 Suspicions I'd Like to Confirm in the DK Code  (Read 2371 times)

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Offline stella_blue

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Top 5 Suspicions I'd Like to Confirm in the DK Code
« on: September 16, 2013, 07:45:37 AM »
  • Does an active hammer, and the point at which it will expire, have any influence on fireball behavior?
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« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 07:54:19 AM by stella_blue »
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Re: Top 5 Suspicions I'd Like to Confirm in the DK Code
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2013, 08:01:03 AM »
I love trying to figure out code without even looking at code.

Given when you do get a hammer you usually see fireballs change to a "scare" mode, now towards the end of the hammer the hammer starts flashing, so there is obviousy a flag/timer that knows this point to tell it to start flashing, my "guess" is that same flag that starts the hammer flashing also releases the fireballs from "scare" mode.
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Offline danman123456

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Re: Top 5 Suspicions I'd Like to Confirm in the DK Code
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2013, 08:04:45 AM »
It HAS to have an influence on the fireballs. So many times on the barrel stage right when the hammer is going out the fireball decides its time to climb up the broken ladder on the right and try and trap me on the 5th girder. It does it so much there HAS to be so logic in the code for it to just be random.
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Offline hchien

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Re: Top 5 Suspicions I'd Like to Confirm in the DK Code
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2013, 08:19:27 AM »
I swear the fireballs run away from you as soon as you grab the hammer on rivets (especially the first/mid-left hammer).

Actually I don't really believe that, but it does seem that way.  My bet is the hammer has no influence on the fireball AI-- it's all in our heads.  But I'm willing to listen if anyone does a code analysis.
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Offline Jeffw

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Re: Top 5 Suspicions I'd Like to Confirm in the DK Code
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2013, 09:24:07 AM »
I've read the fireball algorithm and there was nowhere that I saw in which the hammer status has an impact on fireball behavior. Specifically, the probability of reversing direction appears to be fixed at 50% for each decision point and not dependent on hammer status or anything else. Similarly, the decision of whether or not to climb a ladder also appears to be fixed at 25% probability when it is moving right (but 0% when moving left) as long as taking the ladder is permitted but not forced.

There are still two possibilities in which hammer status could have an impact on fireball behavior. The first is the possibility that the programmers put the code for this behavior is some other area of the code outside of the fireball AI routine, which is unlikely. The second possibility is that there is a bug that causes hammer status to affect fireball behavior. While it is possible for such a bug to exist, in general behavior that is both complex and coherent is unlikely to be produced by a bug. In this case, the behavior described by both Dave and Dan is complex in the sense that the fireball behavior would require knowledge of where the fireball is, where Mario is, which direction is towards Mario and how long before the hammer expires and would need to affect each of the 5 fireballs individually in order to produce the appropriate behavior. The behavior is also coherent in the sense that it is behavior that might have feasibly been intentionally programmed in. So with this in mind I think you can have fairly high confidence that behavior like Dave and Dan describe does not exist.
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Re: Top 5 Suspicions I'd Like to Confirm in the DK Code
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2013, 10:53:46 AM »
Yeah Jeff, I found that old thread where you posted some fireball movement code and couldn't see anything, and yes I get quickly reminded on how trival/random the movement of them are. But, without reading code and just observing, one may believe that there is complex behavior behind them. It's funny how that happens. For example, it almost looks like sometimes two fireballs on rivet act as a team to trap mario. This is just one of those aspects of DK that I prefer believing in the complex because it makes the game more fun and playable. LOL



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Offline danman123456

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Re: Top 5 Suspicions I'd Like to Confirm in the DK Code
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2013, 03:44:17 PM »
I know there shouldnt be but how many times do you grab the hammer on the rivets and they all immediately take off and climb the far ladder on the right? How many times does the fireball come up at the LAST second of your hammer? Why wouldnt the code know where you are and how much hammer is left? :)
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Offline stella_blue

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Re: Top 5 Suspicions I'd Like to Confirm in the DK Code
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2013, 04:08:28 PM »
Why wouldnt the code know . . . how much hammer is left? :)

The code has no business prying into my personal life.   ;)

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Offline JCHarrist

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Re: Top 5 Suspicions I'd Like to Confirm in the DK Code
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2013, 04:34:03 PM »
The fireball's natural tendency is to go up and to the right. They do it all the time. I think you are just a lot more likely to notice it right after you get the hammer.
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Offline up2ng

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Re: Top 5 Suspicions I'd Like to Confirm in the DK Code
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2013, 04:42:28 PM »
The fireball's natural tendency is to go up and to the right. They do it all the time. I think you are just a lot more likely to notice it right after you get the hammer.

This is why it's absolutely amazing to me how often the fireballs flee up the LEFT side ladder immediately upon grabbing the TOP hammer on the rivets.  I mean, it's really beyond ridiculous.
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Offline danman123456

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Re: Top 5 Suspicions I'd Like to Confirm in the DK Code
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2013, 07:54:10 PM »
Yeah but im talking about tonight. 3 times in one game the fireball game up the broken ladder on the right  JUST as the hammer was ending on the barrel stage. Trying to pinch me in the corner. I mean literally JUST as the hammer ends he is up missing getting smashed by what 1 frame? I know maybe it just seems like a coincidence but damn....

Plus like Dean said why do they go up the left side so often too the minute the hammer is grabbed and they change directions as well. I'm certain there is some affect on them other then nothing we just need to find it. Otherwise DK has more moods then ZK ever thought of having ;)
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Re: Top 5 Suspicions I'd Like to Confirm in the DK Code
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2013, 07:52:46 AM »
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