Author Topic: About time for a new comprehensive point pressing guide?  (Read 524 times)

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Offline dnickolas

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About time for a new comprehensive point pressing guide?
« on: November 20, 2017, 01:08:27 AM »
It seems to me that itís time for someone better than me to break things down as of 2017 and create a guide for maxing out scoring per board. Even including newfangled strats like the Willms leech that I have yet to see people use regularly.

You may remember me from being befuddled by the elevator stage some months ago, and since then I feel like I have an optimal strat for it that Iím working to perfect. Parts of it (like top shelf) Iíve heard people talking about on twitch and weíre in fairly good agreement as to how much itís worth (I say about 180 per board, others have said 3500 over a game - pretty close). There was that enormous thread about the spring strats, but I donít see a lot written about quick grab, which is worth even more than top shelf.

So for quick grab, basically always jump to the elevator immediately. If they donít descend early enough to retreat there, then jump just past the elevator wire so you land halfway on the bottom. This allows a retreat with a leech if he descends left right after you committed. Itís tricky to jump right, but is repeatable.

Depending what the fireball does, you may be forced to retreat up the right ladder (not a disaster), or even go the long way around (still can get 7400 or so if you leech some of the springs on the long route. Obviously grabbing the prize and jumping back is the best, especially if you get a leech in on the way out.

And everybody knows about the leech while ascending if he goes down while youíre climbing.

And everyone knows now about quickly ascending the final ladder.

Anyhow, this isnít about me sharing any wisdom since Iím probably the worst player that knows as much as I do, but about fleshing out what really is the best move.

Dean started along these lines with his quizzes some years back. It seems that itís time that we all got on the same page as to what strats are superior when. ďIs this the kind of rng (based on whatís happening now) that makes it optimal to get up top asap on a barrel board, or is it a time to max out the transition and even go for some rejumps in transition?Ē Should I hang out waiting for this freezer to freeze on girder 6, or just finish the board? Should I let the blue pass me and wait for the next blue before grabbing bottom hammer?

Clearly some of this stuff is player dependent, like I sometimes just eschew g6 backjumping when I feel like Iíll probably just die trying it even though Iím leaving points on the table. Sometimes I get out of a mess and am shaky for a few minutes so I just need to finish the board and take a deep breath to avoid an unforced error. But the actual best play is still something that we can define, even if itís hard. The game is hard as hell anyway, so hard shouldnít be a factor.

Wes has hus rules for a million, there are rules for 1.1 kinda. I think itís time for ďwhat to do to get as much as you can.Ē

I do feel like a lot of this is written off as style or personal preference. I think thatís because thereís just enough rng to make people think it doesnít matter as much as it does.

Anyhow, is anyone bored enough with enough free time to take a level and describe what to do when X happens as a starting point? Maybe we start a wiki per board or something. Like, skip the prize on L1 rivet, but Iím not sure if taking out the lower right rivet on the next spawn makes up for it or not. Letís just put that one to bed. Grab the prize on L2 and L3, since theyíre more points and a net positive. Iím not sure on 4 since it does get tricky if usain bolt shows up in a fireball.

Thanks again to this forum, twitch streamers, and youtube for letting me get to the point Iím at relatively quickly. Letís get this knowledge codified so the next generation knows which strats to work on and which to avoid. And if my quick grab strats are actually wrong, please let me know. Iíd love to be proven wrong. Itís like science.

Offline WCopeland

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Re: About time for a new comprehensive point pressing guide?
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2017, 07:10:59 AM »
Your quick grab strat is mostly correct, and is something I experimented with a lot but never implemented in a real game. The only adjustment I would make is land as far to the left as you can on that first elevator, that way when you hit the platform you'll land far left as well. This increases your survival rate during a retreat scenario.
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Offline up2ng

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Re: About time for a new comprehensive point pressing guide?
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2017, 10:46:19 AM »
I think this is a great idea for a thread and I hope that it picks up steam.

I think that the most meaningful debate and/or discussion for maximum point pressing is the comparison between the "panic grab" and the delayed grab for the bottom hammer on barrel boards.  With vague hand waving I maintain that delayed grabbing is superior in terms of point scoring potential while conceding that playing through a full game with zero deaths while using this strategy will happen less often.  I don't want to get into truly breaking down how many points this decision is worth (yet) since I think that doing so accurately is a pretty complex undertaking, but at the very least I think that it's worth some serious discussion and vigorous debate within the community.
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Offline dnickolas

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Re: About time for a new comprehensive point pressing guide?
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2017, 06:04:44 PM »
So as a starting point with the panic grab, youíre likely giving up 2-4 barrel smashes and 1 blue smash. So Iíd say a delayed grab nets out at about 1125-1725 minus the normal jump amounts for those same barrels, putting it in the 725-1325 category. Take the difference and I say waiting earns 1k per board, with maybe a 10% increase in chance of death based on the fireball running up top or wreaking havoc with your transition.

If we just look at wesí barrel averages and compare to you or robbie, I think that the ďwreaking havocĒ might end up costing you the same 1k you gained.