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Related Games => Donkey Kong Remixed => Topic started by: Sock Master on September 08, 2015, 06:18:03 PM

Title: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 08, 2015, 06:18:03 PM
So, I've pretty much finished up on "Donkey Kong Remix" (was called Donkey Kong Remixed) and am now in talks with a hardware guy to get plug-in boards created in order to get the new game into DK hardware.

But if there are any improvements or revisions I could do, I've still got some time before the game gets "locked down".

Here's a video of some gameplay.  (I died stupidly several times on the same board, but eh, I didn't want to record again.)

 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1HfZeRxf_g#t=0)

This is what the game is:
It's the original Donkey Kong, with the original stages, but also a bunch of new additions.

-4 Original stages
-6 Brand new stages
-3 Bonus stages (which appear after a rivets stage)

Most of the stages *also* have several variations, so when you see them the 2nd or 3rd, or sometimes even the 4th time around, they will have changed slightly.

New gameplay mechanics:
-Collapsing floors on the new rivets stages, which can crush firefoxes underneath.
-A spring on one of the new barrel stages, which can send barrels back to the top.
-Gap in the center of a new barrel stage where barrels will fall down and then either go left or right.
-Elevators on a new rivets stage.
-Hammers on a new elevators stage (and you can hammer the springs).
-The rivets+elevators stage has a switch to change the direction of the elevators.
-Blue hammers - Jumpman can *JUMP* while using a blue hammer.

New AI processing:
-Because floors can fall, firefoxes can now fall too.
-Because floors can pile up on top of each other, Jumpman can now walk *in front* of a platform - and also jump up onto it.
-Firefoxes also can jump up onto a platform..and jump back down.
-Yes, the fireballs can get to the top conveyor on the Pie stages...But, they are set not to do it often.  And, they are able to come back down.
-Jumpman can fall slightly further without dying.
-Jumpman can jump without bashing his head into platforms or elevators, stopping and falling to his death.
-There is new logic for things involving situations that could/did not happen in the original game.  New logic for deciding which way a barrel goes after falling down the center gap, new logic for deciding which barrel/which side the fireballs spawn from in the new conveyor stage...  Um, so tricks can be learned, but they'll be different.

Expanded difficulty range:
-Some aspects of game difficulty keep increasing right up till level 22.  But it ramps pretty gracefully.
-Barrel frequency slowly increases as level goes up.
-Elevators have more speeds and can get slightly faster than Classic DK.
-"Pie" frequency slowly keeps increasing as level goes up.
-Springs now do *not* hit maximum frequency on level 4!  Levels 4 through 7 have spring frequency gradually increasing from old-L3 speed until hitting the old-L4 max on level 7.  (I did this to balance out the difficulty.)
-selectable Normal / Hard DIP SWITCH.
   -On Normal, internal difficulty does not go beyond 5.
   -On Hard, internal difficulty goes up to 7.  Fireballs/firefoxes eventually get even faster & spawn faster.  Barrels go to 100% controllable.  Barrel/Pie release rates get slightly faster than Normal.  Elevators reach a higher top speed.   And... there is a new type of wild barrel that can change wild mode each time it bounces (less predictable).

I tried to be very careful about difficulty.  On "Normal" it does not really get insane and should be roughly of similar difficulty to the original Donkey Kong.   "Hard" is for folks who enjoy a bit of extra chaos.

It is harder than classic DK, but I'm trying to keep that level 22 attainable.

But most importantly.. The gameplay is a *lot* more varied, more interesting.. a bit more chaotic.  I've been playing it for months as I've been working on it and I'm really happy with it.

But, I'm not a super expert at playing it..  So I'm making a call out to the experts.  If there are things that shouldn't be the way they are, or things that should be tweaked/changed a bit - I'd love to know so I could make this as good as I can make it.    (Small, easy to change things/details, hopefully, please)

Thanks.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: xelnia on September 08, 2015, 07:11:35 PM
Pretty excited for this!  Kreygasm

Is there any way we can play-test this in MAME?
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 08, 2015, 09:40:24 PM
I'm considering maybe putting together a demo version that would fit into DK's ROM footprint, that would load into MAME.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: hooch66 on September 09, 2015, 06:33:00 AM
Cool man, cool. I'm definitely in for the plug-board.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: tilt on September 09, 2015, 08:54:29 AM
I'm considering maybe putting together a demo version that would fit into DK's ROM footprint, that would load into MAME.
Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm  Kreygasm Kreygasm
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: marinomitch13 on September 10, 2015, 08:26:29 PM
Barrels go to 100% controllable.

Robbie must be crying tears of joy.  Kreygasm
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on September 10, 2015, 09:14:32 PM
This is awesome.

Alright everybody, make sure you make your misgivings known! Because if you let this come out without doing so, you surrender the right to all the neverending bitchin' that you do about D2K. ;D

However, I am very curious - if this isn't MAME that we're seeing in the video, what ARE you running it in?
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 10, 2015, 10:10:03 PM
It's running in MAME in the video, but it's a modified build that supports the unused 5th ROM socket that is in the DK 4 board stack.   (I was surprised that MAME does not support ROMs in that socket, actually.   Has that socket never been used before, ever??)
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on September 10, 2015, 11:33:46 PM
Honestly I'd never even heard of that empty slot in the 4-board and was very surprised to come to know of it. I have no hands-on experience with a 4-board though.

At any rate, I've read a fair amount about DK boards and the things people do with them, and to my knowledge, nobody has ever made use of this socket for any purpose. I'm curious why it's there at all. Might be some sort of Radarscope remnant, or a bit of the design that never came to be utilized (a la the unused "200" and "falling pie" sprites).
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: weiwovaseiba on September 11, 2015, 05:15:10 AM
This thread, I like,
this game I want!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 11, 2015, 06:14:12 AM
It looks like the empty ROM socket was intended for a diagnostic ROM.  There is even code in Donkey Kong to check if the service switch is pressed and then jump to the extra ROM.  Whether this diagnostic ROM was ever made, I don't know.  It's possible that it exists, somewhere.   Without it, DK just jumps to empty space in the address map and locks up if the service switch is pressed.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: WCopeland on September 11, 2015, 07:32:25 AM
If you give the ROM to mamedev, I have no doubt they will add official support for it in MAME.

http://mamedev.org/contact.html (http://mamedev.org/contact.html)
There is a radio button for a new ROM dump you'd like to submit. You could also probably put in a pull request for it on their Github since you've already got support for it up and going locally.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on September 11, 2015, 09:19:44 AM
I actually do have my doubts that MAMEdev will add this.

Generally speaking, their philosophy is only to include games that actually had a commercial release, not homebrew hacks. I think D2K managed to squeak through simply because it became fairly successful and well known, a good number of collectors bought the kit, and many were asking for it to be MAMEd. But I could be mistaken and it's definitely worth a shot.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: WCopeland on September 11, 2015, 10:32:21 AM
Be that as it may, I don't think they'd reject a pull request with support implemented.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 11, 2015, 04:06:24 PM
I'm still ironing out some bugs anyway.   But, yes, I am hoping to make it available as a hardware kit to install into DK cabs.

I did find a way to keep cutting it down until it did fit into MAME's DK 16K code size.  What I ended up with is a version with two alternating boards.   I chose the barrels with spring, and the rivets with elevators stages, as perhaps being two more unique stages of DKRemix.  If it looks like I got the bugs out, I think I'll post up a link for everyone to try and maybe leave some feedback on.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 12, 2015, 01:11:17 PM
If anyone wants to try out two of the stages in DK Remix, I have cobbled up a ROM that will fit into MAME's DK ROM map.

http://users.axess.com/twilight/sock/dkremix/dkrdemo.zip (http://users.axess.com/twilight/sock/dkremix/dkrdemo.zip)

Just replace the 4 normal program ROMs in DK with these 4.

I *think* I might have finally ironed out the last bugs that were bothering me, but one of them happens too infrequently for me to be able to tell for sure yet.   ..or my effort to fix it caused more bugs.   We're getting at that dangerous stage in game development...

I would really appreciate any feedback if the bugs below or any other bug is spotted, and also some feedback on the difficulty/unfairness level of the game...

-Spring Barrels stage:  On some rare occasions, fireballs have got stuck and floated upwards or downwards on the right hand side of the screen, seen happening on the bottom two girders.   It seems to have had something to do with freezer mode.   I *think* I got it fixed now, though, but I'm not 100% sure.

-Rivets Elevator stage: There was some glitchiness concerning elevators being too close to platforms, causing jumpman to float if jumping while standing at a point where it counts as being simultaneously on top of a platform *and* an elevator.    I moved the elevators a few pixels outwards and I'm pretty sure it's fixed now.

Lastly,  I added a DIP Switch setting for Hard difficulty.   What it does is change the internal difficulty maximum to 7 instead of 5 (plus added code to handle internal difficulties 6 & 7, which are faster elevators, faster fireballs, faster spawn timers, a new type of wild barrel, stuff like that..)     So, the difficulty progression at the "normal" dip setting is more like regular Donkey Kong, but in "hard" things get faster and more chaotic beyond level 5.

To try out "Hard" difficulty, set the dip switches to "1 coin/3 credits" (then reboot).   To play at "normal" difficulty, set the dip switches to "1 coin/1 credit"

What I would really like to know about the hard difficulty setting is... is it more chaotic, more challenging...  but not over the line impossibly hard?   I want it to be fun, not aggravating;  a way to extend interest in the game once a player is used to the normal difficulty.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: marinomitch13 on September 12, 2015, 02:31:21 PM
This version of DK looks incredibly awesome. Thanks for all the hard work you must have put into this.  Kreygasm

At the risk of coming across as ungrateful (which I definitely am not), I have one suggestion, but I have no idea if this would be too hard to implement: Jumping onto ladders (by holding the "up" direction while passing in front of them in the air). Is there any feasible way this could be an additional ability like jumping with the blue hammer? I think it'd add some crazy new survival strategies of partially jumping over fireballs to avoid them in tough situations. But, then again, maybe it'd make the game too easy.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 12, 2015, 03:45:12 PM
That is a nice idea.  Just thinking about the implementation kinda makes me worry that it's going get real complicated  because of the way climbing ladders works.  (technical - functional ladders can only start and end in lengths of 4 pixel divisions.  Jumpman can only get off a ladder on that 4th step of the climbing animation.  ladder checks are only on ladder ends.  ...a mid-air ladder grab loses those alignments so some sort of computation will have to happen to 'wind' the animation and position to the correct 'step'.)

I could try some experimenting with it and see what happens. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. maybe it's cool and fun, or maybe it breaks the game or gameplay.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: marinomitch13 on September 12, 2015, 03:51:09 PM
Lol! Yeah, that makes it sound tough. You're a boss for even considering messing with it. Thanks again for making a sick game!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 12, 2015, 06:40:38 PM
I had a go at it and kind-of sort-of got something working, but every step I take towards making it work unravels another 3 or 4 glitches.

I guess I'll quit, but it was an interesting experiment to try.   The code is a bit too dependent on climbing and jumping being unrelated logic.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on September 13, 2015, 02:20:51 AM
I've been playing this. Fun!

My impression, without even having played the 4 other new boards, is that this game is going to be hard to kill screen. I attached an INP (MAME .158). On 3+1 settings, I got to the 10th board (L10). One L3 barrel murder, a total my-fault on L7 barrels, a very rough spot on L8 rivets, and another "I need luck" on L10 rivets. I actually did better on a previous game, but I kinda liked this run.

The new barrel board is tricky but 100% survivable with correct decisionmaking, until and unless fireballs come into play (In other words, same as DK). I want very badly to jump onto the spring like a trampoline and watch Jumpman fly up, and then run back down and do it again, and again, but obviously that wouldn't make sense in terms of gameplay. I wouldn't change a thing on this board.

The new rivet level might be a tad too screwing-prone. I've come up with my own basic standard strategy for it, but there is some super-nasty randomness that can create "dependent on luck" spots that are going to be tough to fade no matter how good you get. But with 3 rivet variations in Remix, this board will only appear 7 times over the course of 21 full levels (right?), so maybe it's OK as is.

I would make one urgent request: for the love of what is holy, please remove "internal difficulty 3" wild barrels from the game completely. Whether DK, D2K, or this variant, these are an absolute scourge, and were the single worst design decision made by the original creators. These particular wild barrels are nothing but an aggravating waste of time that steal lives in a completely unfair, luck-dependent manner, even when all best practices are followed, and they should be banished from the code. On Remix they're even worse because the new barrel board layout means that the player must spend more time getting to the top, hence giving DK more time to throw them. Some small amount of luck-dependent randomness in DK is good, but the L3 cheat-missiles simply take it too far.

Just curious, how hard would it be to create two additional ROMsets, each with 2 of the new boards? If that's like a 20-30 minute job that you could do easily, I would urge you to. Then we could fully playtest this. Personally, I'd like to give the springs and pie factories a shot to see how things shake out up through L21.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 13, 2015, 06:52:30 AM
Thanks, ChrisP!

I haven't checked the .inp playback yet, but if anyone does or posts any, there is a version number written in the readme.txt of the demo download file.  I'll guess this .inp was from V1.4, but I'll try the others if it's not.   The playback will only play correctly if it's played on the same rom version as it was recorded.   I guess anyone posting  .inp files should include the version # along with the file.    (I'm mentioning this because I already changed the rom since I announced it because I finally figured out the floating fireball bug and fixed it.)

New barrel board - yes!  I die more often than the original barrel board, but it never feels like I was cheated.  It's simply more chaos to assess simultaneously needing quick decision times.

Rivets board - Yes, it only appears every third rivets board.  If there is a particular bad-luck situation, there may be a way to reduce it's probability.   Maybe by changing the ratio of fireball spawn points, or adding/removing/moving a ladder to guide, restrict or increase mobility of the fireballs (or Jumpman)

Wild barrel type 2 - hmmmm.  It hadn't occurred to me that it might be good to eliminate something that is part of the original DK.    an idea...  I have already added a wild barrel type 4, but it only comes into play when internal difficulty >6 when dip switches are set to "Hard" mode.   Maybe I can swap the two.   People can try playing the hard dip switch setting and decide if the new wild barrel type is less murderous and maybe I can swap type 2 and type 4.   type 4 is a hybrid.. it randomly switches between type 2 and 3 each bounce.

Yes, it would be possible to make other test demo roms.  It's not a 30 minute job to do, though.   I have to pore through the code eliminating code that is unnecessary to the included levels until it all fits into DK's original ROM size.  This one took some effort to shrink enough to fit.  It is a good idea and I think I'll do this in a few days, or when we decide these two boards are a-ok.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on September 13, 2015, 04:16:19 PM
To be honest, while I thought right away that the idea for Remix was cool and the boards looked interesting, I wasn't sure how into it I was going to be when it came down to actual gameplay.

But it only took a half hour or so of playing and I was totally hooked. :)

So, while it's always hard to put a finger on stuff like this in a conscious way that can be articulated, all I can says is that I found it hard to stop playing this last night, so you are definitely doing a lot of things right here!

My only fear is making sure that there's a balance between randomness and player control. In my opinion, this is actually one of the strengths of D2K: while the refinery board has a "clock" problem, other than that, Jeff built that game (whether accidentally or knowingly) such that there's fewer ways to get unfairly screwed over than there are in DK.

I would say that something needs to be tweaked on that rivet board. Again, nothing major to adjust, it's just that I'm finding myself dying there too often, in ways that I don't feel like are my fault.

Here are a few suggestions:

- Initial firefox spawns on the top two girders are a good idea, but how about setting it so that they can't REspawn up there if smashed? That whole area is pretty hairy if you have to deal with them at all, but when you manage to smash one or two, and then they just respawn up there instantly, you're still going to have a very hard time clearing those last rivets and I feel like you're too much at the mercy of their decisions.

- Another option would be to let them respawn wherever, but put another "elevator switcher" up at the top, maybe by Kong. This way the player could actually get down into the lower portion again if necessary, to lure top-spawning firefoxes down through the broken ladders, or to go back for the hammer if you weren't able to get it the first time. As it is now, once you've jumped off of the elevator into the upper area, you're stuck there. If you have no hammer, and there are 2 (or even 1) firefoxes, you're pretty much relying on the game to be nice at that point, especially since you're forced to take the rivets in a certain order (top right must go before any on the left).

- I feel like I am a sitting duck too often when standing on the two collapsed girders. The player is forced to walk back and forth across that corridor to flip the elevator switcher and then get onto the right side to go up, but it just seems like the firefoxes have too much of an upper hand if they get on there with you. You have to jump over them, or just pray and hope that they go away. Here's what I'm thinking: there are three ladders that disappear when the girders collapse (two below the first, and one in the middle between the first and second). Might it be possible to leave shortened versions of at least one ladder, so that the player has at least some means of getting from the top to the ground? As it is now, if you start on the ground, a jump will take you from ground to the first, and another jump will move you from the first to the second, but once you're up, you can't get down. No way to jump or climb down, and walking off the side will kill you too. I just think there needs to be a way to not be completely stranded and exposed there with a yolo-jump being your only defense. (I know you can actually jump onto the left side elevator from the switcher platform, but that is VERY dicey and will usually be totally unhelpful if firefoxes are swarming the left side.) Geez, you might even consider, instead of ladders, simply putting another hammer next to the elevator switcher. The player just needs some kind of defense/avoidance option there.

Basically I would say to not be afraid of making that board seemingly "too easy." It's already pretty complex as it is, and has a lot of forced linear-ness to it, which is one of the complaints about the D2K levels. Consider how easy a regular DK-style rivet seems, when everything goes well, versus how nasty they CAN be when the game is doing its worst. I would say don't worry about letting the layout "breathe" a little more, and just trust in the evilness of the fireball subroutines to create plenty of awful situations on their own. :)

- I am in favor of anything to get rid of the Level 3 wild barrels. ;D I am not exaggerating when I say that the wild barrels on L3 and L4 very nearly caused me to stop playing DK forever. I would be interested in other player input on that, though. Mostly so that I can hear unanimously that nobody wants them (right??)

I would very much like a few players, in particular I'm thinking Dean and Ross, to try this version and give their feedback.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 13, 2015, 05:47:58 PM
Thanks Chris,

I know if I've been playing it throughout development and also going back and forth between original DK, that if I haven't gotten sick of playing it yet it's probably alright.  When I first started making stages, some of them were kind of "meh" at the beginning.   It's all the back and forth, trying different ideas, tweaking things that eventually made it get better.

Though I do worry about the odds of someone being able to reach the kill screen.   I think I got the balance between chaotic random and survivability on most of the boards, it's just the elevator rivets and the new pie stage that struck me as being a bit unfair.   The other collapsing rivets board seems fair to me, especially after jumping-hammers were added.

I'm looking for easy tweaks or changes.  Something that doesn't require bending the existing game logic too much.

Elevator switch directions again - yes.  I was considering something real simple.  Once you step onto the 4th floor, the elevators just reverse automatically right then.    No fuss.

Spawn locations - This might be a good idea.  I'm thinking about how I might be able to do this in a logical way.. how would the game know when *not* to spawn fireballs somewhere?  RE-spawn is not in DK's vocabulary.  All spawns are the same.    Maybe that elevator switch is the answer.  Once you reach 4th floor, the game could set a flag and reverse the elevators.   If that flag is set, use a cut down spawn locations list.
(Interestingly, there's a bug in the original DK.  It has a list of 16 spawn locations.. but a math bug makes it never use half of the list.   I fixed that bug in DKR and fireballs spawn using the full list on the classic rivets stage.   I could conditionally re-introduce that bug effect on this rivets stage to give it two ranges of spawning points.)

Sitting duck zone - I can't think of any way to make ladders like that work.   I've been a bit stumped by this problem as well.  There is that lower right platform beside the fallen floors, and if I just trim one floor tile off it so the two are not connected... but this causes problems if fireballs fell from the sky, then they'd really be in the way because they can't get off there.
There is *a* way off.  You can set the elevator direction so left side elevators travel downward, jump onto an elevator then from there onto the floor before the motor kills you.   A little tricky to pull off, but it is a way to get off there.    (it is also possible to step or jump off the right side elevator and onto the base floor.)

Level 3-4 wild barrels - I'm convinced the original programmers thought these were less dangerous than the homing-missile barrels.    L1-2 = gentle random, L3-4 = more random, L5+ = seek to kill.   Maybe just a slight modification to the 'formula' would make them easier without losing the original intention - maybe something similar to halfway between L1-2 & L3-4?
DKRemix has an optional 4th barrel type if you set one of the dip switches to murder mode.  They start occurring at internal difficulty 7.   I don't think anyone else has playtested this mode yet.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: marinomitch13 on September 13, 2015, 06:19:57 PM
I would make one urgent request: for the love of what is holy, please remove "internal difficulty 3" wild barrels from the game completely. Whether DK, D2K, or this variant, these are an absolute scourge, and were the single worst design decision made by the original creators.

I respectfully dissent.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on September 13, 2015, 06:26:19 PM
How did I know that Mitch would say this?  FailFish

You have up to 500 words to defend the presence of these things in a game that is now played as a test of skill/focus (as opposed to simply eat quarters). Go!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Adam_Mon on September 13, 2015, 07:09:18 PM
Played a few hours today, some streamed and some offline, I found that rivet board to be very fun and addictive.

Its 3am so I wont go into too much detail for now, until I've played some more tomorrow.
re: the top right rivet... there definitely came a few scenarios where I was faced with a freezer who would hang out on the top girder and to the right of that right side rivet. I found the real difficulty here came from the fact there was only one ladder to use and it was being occupied by the freezer in between freezing cycles.  this often lead to timing out if the freezer would not move away, since freezers cant be jumped while stationary it kinda leaves you waiting around and hoping for a break that all to often doesn't come.

Some solutions to try combat this problem already exist in the game currently.
I found that by grabbing the left hammer and getting as many smashes as possible to try keep the fireballs away from the right side you can (hopefully) conserve the right hammer for freezers that take control of that upper most right ladder..

You can use that hammer to jump up and smash trough the floor in an attempt to clear the freezer(s) I attached a highlight below. in the clip I didn't manage to get the freezer since he was keeping to the far right but I got his buddy and it demonstrates that you can get smashes and clear a path to that right rivet..

Of course this is only helpful if you're in a position to save that hammer for later.. (but if you have to use that second hammer to help clear fireballs away on the elevator switch level and you have one or more freezers up top and only one ladder you run the risk of being in a bad position).

http://www.twitch.tv/double_entendres/v/15944388 (http://www.twitch.tv/double_entendres/v/15944388)

a second possibility to dealing with this is to look to regular DK, If we ever encounter one or more freezers on the top right of the rivet board we always have the option of utilizing 2 ladders, so if a freezer occupies one we can take the other and pull the rivet and then make an escape.

This option doesn't exist  in this remix rivet board since we only have one ladder there, so if a freezer decides to hang out here we basically have to wait while the clock ticks down (which I think ticks down faster since the internal difficulty is set higher after lvl 5 right?)

So one option might be to include a second ladder at that right rivet which would significantly (I'm assuming) reduce screwings and also maintains some of the difficulty since it would also be usable by the fireballs.

In fact there is a central ladder right under kong that jump man can't use since it would result in climbing right into kong himself resulting in death.. theoretically (and again I'm assuming) that could maybe be moved to the right? so it would resemble the ladder set up on regular DK and give us a second option to combat an otherwise potentially impassable scenario?

but if the ladder is moved I'm not sure what would happen with the floating fireballs that use that central ladder to drop down? so maybe that's not a great option.

To be honest I like it how it currently is, I enjoy the fact that you have to consider conserving the right hammer to deal with potential fireballs up top, this adds an element of strategy, and you can pretty much use the left hammer then take the elevator down and keep smashing with it to clear a path to the switch and of course you have the falling girders which are just as useful as the hammer..

Basically I personal wouldn't change much at all, that particular board can be very difficult and I keep reminding myself that its (I think only 7 times someone said?) that the stage appears in a real game with all the lvls included ...maybe I got that wrong??

so yeah I'll echo what Chris said and hope that others try it and chime in, Hopefully Dean catches wind of it and gives it a go, I know he wanted to play it but couldn't run coco.. Very good design so far and I also found myself wanting to keep playing..

I'll give feed back after I play some more tomorrow
Great work!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: marinomitch13 on September 13, 2015, 07:32:09 PM
How did I know that Mitch would say this?  FailFish

You have up to 500 words to defend the presence of these things in a game that is now played as a test of skill/focus (as opposed to simply eat quarters). Go!

If you practice dealing with them (the best way being the WBH) and come to know their precise nature, you will almost never run into an unsurvivable situation. This is the same thing as saying that if one develops the necessary techniques/knowledge, the game becomes one of skill and focus.

Having watched the DK Remixed YT video, I have a hard time seeing how the 1/16th chance of one of these WBs during a particular section of the new barrel boards is in anyway harder than the WBH -a version of DK that one could consistently survive if not for the first few barrels being type 2. Worst case scenario, I like the idea of people being forced to lay low for the internal difficulty to change.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on September 13, 2015, 08:20:34 PM
If you practice dealing with them (the best way being the WBH) and come to know their precise nature you will almost never run into an unsurvivable situation.

"Almost never" my butt. Kappa

Depends on where you are when he decides to throw one (like the middle ladder, or under the top hammer when you jump to grab it *shudder*), and whether or not it's one of the type that literally follows you wherever you go once it hits the girder directly above you. I just think that it's incredibly cheap, unreasonably difficult, and not an aspect of the game worth preserving.

However, for me, I would say that it comes down to which of the three barrel board types that the final version puts on L3. If it's the standard DK barrel board, I'll grimace and bear it. :) But they were annihilating me yesterday on the Remix L3...
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 13, 2015, 08:46:53 PM
There's an updated version of the playtesting demo up.

It has some tweaks to the rivets stage - the elevator automatically reverses again once you step on the 4th floor.   Fireballs no longer spawn on the top floors once you've reached them.   Elevators move 1 speed slower on rivets (I figured I'd give this a go simply to make it easier to get on and off them, but they continue speeding up to max as the game progresses so it only makes a difference the first time you see the level)

Any change that doesn't seem to help may easily be removed again.


Adam, exactly :) The top hammer is placed so it can be used to clear the fireballs up top.
  I could add a ladder up top, but it would have to be to the right of the rivet.  If a ladder were placed left of it, it would become possible to pull DK's floor before pulling the floor below it.. which makes an end-of-level bug because the collapsing floors mechanic forces level design to have DK's floor dropped last.

Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: marinomitch13 on September 13, 2015, 11:31:05 PM
If you practice dealing with them (the best way being the WBH) and come to know their precise nature you will almost never run into an unsurvivable situation.
"Almost never" my butt. Kappa

Seriously, just practice the WBH. Once you can survive all parts of the barrel board to a high degree of consistency (excluding getting to the 2nd girder -which is a pretty difficult section, but would never be an issue in the other versions due to the first barrels being forced), then you're probably set for anything DK throws at you in normal or remixed DK.

Bonus: Practice doing the WBH taking only the short ladders.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 14, 2015, 09:09:25 AM
I've updated the demo with some changes that might help make the elevator rivets board a bit more survivable.

I also added more layout variation and *slightly* easier L=3&4 wild barrels to the girder board.   I'm not sure I like the layout variations and might just remove them, though.

I think that's about all I could do for that rivets board, so that'll probably be it for that one.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 15, 2015, 10:02:41 AM
Sometimes I just miss the obvious..  I figure I should look into fixing some of DK's scoring inconsistencies in DKRemix.

example: If you jump over two fireballs in the girder screen, you get 300 points.
              If you jump over two fireballs in any other screen ... you get 100 points.

It'd make sense if it allowed scoring multiples throughout.

Are there any other similar issues that bother people?
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on September 15, 2015, 12:13:05 PM
I love the two new ladders and the reversing elevator in the new rivet stage. The two ladders on the top in particular make a BIG difference for dealing with fireballs up there. It seems a lot more fair. The "sitting duck zone" is still going to be an issue sometimes, but there's only so much tinkering you can do before it would just start making a mess of everything.

Interesting about getting combo-leech points on the other boards. That, along with triples now being worth 800 points, is definitely going to make for some interesting scoring dynamics on this game.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: marinomitch13 on September 15, 2015, 01:03:41 PM
Are there any other similar issues that bother people?

I don't recall... did you say you made jumping over 3 barrels worth 800?

I think it'd be cool to extrapolate it further in some way for 4, 5, and 6 barrels.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: tilt on September 15, 2015, 01:41:17 PM
Are there any other similar issues that bother people?

I don't recall... did you say you made jumping over 3 barrels worth 800?

I think it'd be cool to extrapolate it further in some way for 4, 5, and 6 barrels.
This, so many times  Kreygasm
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 15, 2015, 04:04:49 PM
I'm still digging into the code, but it's pretty obvious that the combo scoring on the girders stages was not originally written into the game.  It's a hack that was added afterwards, probably by Nintendo without the ability to re-assemble the program, rather than Ikegami who had the source code.     

It uses a modified version of a clone of the original routine which is also used for detecting hammer hits and death collisions.   So now I have to figure out how to unify this stuff nicely without also breaking hammer and death collision detection in the process.


As for 4,5,6.. combo bonuses.. Yes and no.  It could be done, but there aren't any sprites that could be used to display higher bonuses on-screen.  There are only the 100,200,300,500 and 800 sprites.   It doesn't seem like there's any easy way to work around that.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: WCopeland on September 15, 2015, 04:53:25 PM
Jumping three barrels should not award 800 points. It should award 500 and show the correct sprite.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on September 15, 2015, 05:56:29 PM
Jumping three barrels should not award 800 points. It should award 500 and show the correct sprite.

I think it's time DKF had an all-out debate about which was the actual intent here. Kappa

Wes is apparently in the same camp I am (that the typo was actually the sprite location reference, not the score value).

Dean, who is on the other side, made a good point about this the other night though: if it was meant to be 500, the "800" sprite would have been noticed and caught in testing. It would have been hard to miss (whereas the score going up by 500 would have been easy to miss).

On the other hand, I believe that the typo (sprite location "#7F" rather than "#7E") would have been much easier to make than accidentally typing "#05" when "#08" was the intention. But I don't know, as I have no clue what sort of programming tools they were using.

I am torn...
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 15, 2015, 06:22:31 PM
My opinion is that it was intended to be 800.  A 3 barrel jump was expected to be much less likely, therefore score higher.    I do think this will always be a divided issue, though.

On the other hand, this game is a remix.  The rules could be anything - add blue hammers that you can jump with?  Why not.

From my point of view, 800 for 3 barrels is good because it's going to tempt players to push their luck.   It pushes that risk vs. reward button nicely.

Either way, there's some good news.   If 800 is *not* used for 3.. that opens it up for being used for 4 barrel jumps.  And that... would also push that risk vs. reward temptation.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on September 16, 2015, 06:49:30 PM
Just wanted to run an idea by you:

The bonus life award in DK has always struck me as kind of silly. The scoring thresholds are too low, and too close to one another. Seems like a waste of dipswitch options to have 7K/10K/15K/20K as the cutoffs.

Here's what I'm thinking: as I play this, having only seen 2 of the boards, it's clear to me that getting through 117 boards on 3+1 settings is going to be extraordinarily tough, if not impossible. A lot of the difficulty here is going to come down to nasty randomness that there's not going to be any way to "out-skill" (especially on that new rivet board!)

I think for our "official" competition settings, we're gonna want to play with more lives, to offset some of that bad luck. D2K standard is 6 men, and it plays really well that way due to "clock screwings" on the later refinery boards, so I think there's a solid precedent here.

But how about we have some fun with the extra man dipswitches? I'm thinking, keep the standard 7K award, but also have options for extras every 150K, or maybe 200K, with no limit (even with a 1M run you would still only get a maximum of 5 or 6 extras total before the KS, which would be 8 or 9 men in all, same as simply setting it for 9 to start).

I just like the idea of official competition settings being 3 men + 1 every 'x' amount of points, and having to actually fight deeper and deeper into the game to get all of your potential lives. It would add a whole new dimension of excitement, to, for example, be on your last man with no reserve, and knowing that you're only 10K from another man.

It also seems like it's probably (?) a really easy change to implement. :)

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 16, 2015, 10:41:07 PM
I think it's a good idea.  The existing bonus life dip switch options are essentially pointless - they're all pretty much the same thing.

I do like the idea of having one setting that only gives just one bonus life.  But the other 3 could have different repeating spreads.

As far as I can estimate, scoring will still be similar to original DK but a bit higher due to hammers on the alternate elevators stage, jump with hammer giving more reach, the extra bonus stages, and slightly increased spawn rates later on.   Rough guestimate maybe 1,800,000 max attainable score??

The death rate may seem like it'll be high, but it's tricky to tell because optimal strategies haven't necessarily been discovered yet.

Maybe something like:
-10,000 points only
-15,000 points and every 150,000 points
-25,000 points and every 250,000 points
-35,000 points and every 350,000 points

A player could (fairly) quickly discover what the machine they stepped up to is set at.  The first extra life is easy for casual players, the rest more difficult but covering a fairly wide range because we don't know what the ideal setting would be.

Opinions?

In other news, I got 1,2,3 and 4 barrel/etc.. combo jumps implemented across all screens.   100, 300, 500 and 800 points.    That also means silly things like a DK + fireball combo leech, or spring + fireball combo leech = 300 points, in addition to the actual purpose of being able to jump over 4 things at once for 800 points.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: WCopeland on September 17, 2015, 06:30:17 AM
I think those additional leeches might be good for the game, as they would probably wind up raising the skill ceiling. I can picture patterns being devised for rivet boards that would be designed to let you both leech the leg and a fireball simultaneously.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: LMDAVE on September 17, 2015, 06:45:59 AM
Jumping three barrels should not award 800 points. It should award 500 and show the correct sprite.

I think it's time DKF had an all-out debate about which was the actual intent here. Kappa

Wes is apparently in the same camp I am (that the typo was actually the sprite location reference, not the score value).

Dean, who is on the other side, made a good point about this the other night though: if it was meant to be 500, the "800" sprite would have been noticed and caught in testing. It would have been hard to miss (whereas the score going up by 500 would have been easy to miss).

On the other hand, I believe that the typo (sprite location "#7F" rather than "#7E") would have been much easier to make than accidentally typing "#05" when "#08" was the intention. But I don't know, as I have no clue what sort of programming tools they were using.

I am torn...

Yeah, I agree with that logic that if it wasn't intended to be 800 it would have been caught immediately from the sprite. Also, 500 is not much of an award from 300. You're tripling your 100 award for double barrels to 300, so 800 is a fair award for triple, and as rare as 4 objects are, it should be about 1200-1600 if there was not a max on object jumps.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 18, 2015, 09:39:21 PM
I've posted up one last version of the barrels+spring, rivets+elevators DKRemix demo.   It's getting difficult to maintain the same code revisions across both demo and the full build.  And I think that's it for tweaks to those stages anyway.

What's new:
-Combo jumps for up to 4 objects.  100,300,500 & 800 points.
-Combo jumps in all boards, not just barrels.
-Can now earn more than 1 extra life (as described in my last post.)
-Barrel boards occasionally have blue hammers now (this might be removed, but I wanted to try it.)
-You can jump onto the spring on the barrel board.  You still die, but in a more interesting way.

Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on September 19, 2015, 12:22:43 AM
Just got to L21 on 5+1 settings. :)

I missed the kill screen because I was stupid and trusted the hitbox on a wild barrel to be forgiving. (Argh.)

I enjoyed myself.

Oh, hey, new world record too. Kappa

One thing though: I don't understand the point of the blue hammers on the barrel board. They don't change the dynamics of the board in any way that I can discern. They're just kinda clumsy. The girder above you is too high for a jump from below to hit anything, and jumping just isn't a dynamic that you'll ever find valuable when the primary purpose of the hammer on a barrel board is to clear out barrel traffic and/or get points. If anything they're just obnoxious due to the habit we're all in of tapping on the button when the hammer is getting near expiration. (Oops, I jumped over the barrel instead of smashing it...)

I could imagine, once in a blue moon, catching a climbing fireball that you otherwise wouldn't have caught, but that's about it. I think you should just leave the brown ones. :)

Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 19, 2015, 07:38:31 AM
Nice.  I think it's reached gameplay being pretty fair.

Yeah, I'm thinking I won't leave the blue hammers in.  They're really nice on the other boards, but don't really contribute much to barrel boards.   There are a few things you can do, like jump over a barrel then hit it with a hammer.  You can hit barrels on girders above in some places but the girders are pretty far apart on this one.  On the other girder boards they're closer - you can even hit barrels right out of DK's hands when he's releasing them.  The idea was to get them 1/4 of the time to add variety.

Good point about tapping the jump button when the hammer is about to run out.. this interferes with that precautionary strategy.

Was there any noticeable difference in the L3,L4 wild barrels?   I didn't change them much, but they're slightly tamed.

I missed watching the world records live, but it was very interesting to see the next day.  I did catch Dean's game a couple of days earlier and that was amazing to see live.   So much amazing gameplay almost all at once!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 19, 2015, 03:52:54 PM
I put together a DK Remix demo of two more boards; the reverse barrels stage and the alternate cement/pie stage.

I'm mostly curious to hear if the cement stage is fair or unfair.    I think the rest of the stages in the game are pretty well balanced.

Yes, the new cement stage is more random because the fireballs can spawn in 4 places.   No, the spawn points are not as easy to control and even then it's never 100%, but the hammers should be good for clearing the way.   I'm curious how well the randomness plays out.

You can get the 2nd demo here:
http://users.axess.com/twilight/sock/dkremix/dkrdemob.zip (http://users.axess.com/twilight/sock/dkremix/dkrdemob.zip)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 20, 2015, 11:39:30 AM
An updated version (v1.2) of the 2nd DKRemix demo is up.
The update includes fixes to a few jump bonus detection bugs and a conveyor timing issue that were discovered by DaLar.

Hopefully, that is it for bugs and glitches.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 23, 2015, 10:16:52 AM
One thing I didn't change up until now was the kill screen.

But I figured...this is a remix, I might as well remix the kill screen too.

When you reach L22, the game flips into psycho mode and really lays it on - fast timers, fast barrel releases, tons of blue barrels, tons of wild barrels, tons of bombs - and not just straight down

http://youtu.be/6AKuD8gzlso (http://youtu.be/6AKuD8gzlso)

Just psycho enough that it is possible to survive a while.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: marinomitch13 on September 23, 2015, 12:59:09 PM
Beautiful!  Kreygasm BibleThump BibleThump BibleThump <Sanders>
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on September 26, 2015, 07:24:31 PM
Really liking the second demo! Many interesting situations on the new pie factory.

I had one idea to getting the "full" version going in MAME, but I don't know if it's feasible: the D2K romspace is 64KB (the ROM, dkongx.zip, contains just one file "d2k12.bin."

What about putting Remix into that file, and then running it in MAME as D2K?
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on September 26, 2015, 09:08:10 PM
It is nice how the new pie/factory, while similar to the original one comes up with quite different gameplay scenarios.

It ought to be compatible with D2K's ROM mapping, but there's some weirdness going on there.  D2K has scrambled ROMs and mapping.


Ah, I think I need to quit for a bit or catch up on sleep...  I just did something evil and I feel maybe a bit dirty.   I just added a 3rd color of barrel... on a whim..  They bounce after falling down the edges of girders.   It was real easy, and damn it looks cool in the "funnel"/"center hole"/"spring+barrels" stage; mesmerizing even.   Like a big percolating lava lamp.   Full of murder barrels.   ...Yep, It's time to stop messing with the game.

Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on September 26, 2015, 10:22:11 PM
Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. I think there is some sort of encryption at work in the D2K ROM, but I don't know the nature of it.

Just for fun, I dumped the (merged) dkong z80 code into the d2k12.bin just to see what would happen. I got the bootup sound (boi-oi-oing), and the rug pattern, but it stopped dead right there (no surprise). Another problem is that the game is all soft dipswitches, which wouldn't be compatible with the way you have Remix written (it uses the physical switches).
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on October 05, 2015, 03:11:37 PM
I made a new revision to Demo A, with the latest changes added.

Some tweaks to the Rivets Elevator board, with the added escape ladder to the sitting duck zone.
I even added the new 'kill screen'.
And a new type of barrel, for fun, but I might remove it if it doesn't add to the game.

Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: tilt on October 05, 2015, 05:41:33 PM
New idea: You know how you have to backjump before the rivet girder falls?  Well I think that as long as you jump off to a different girder before it hits the bottom, you should be able to survive.  I think this would provide a whole new survival mechanic that would make things even more fun.  The question is: Is it even possible to add in?
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: tilt on October 05, 2015, 05:48:26 PM
... also:
WOULD A WALL JUMP BONUS STAGE BE POSSIBLE??  <Allen> <Allen> <Allen> <Allen> <Allen> <Allen> <Allen> <Allen>
Kappa
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on October 05, 2015, 06:20:14 PM
There's a technical complication with trying to do that.  The rivets floors can only be drawn at 8 pixel (size of a tile) steps, so they can't fall smoothly like Jumpman falls.   After the very first step of falling, Jumpman is already 7-8 pixels detached from the floor and can't jump any more because he's in free-fall himself.
If the floors could fall in 1 pixel steps, like the elevators then it might have been more possible.

There is one major style of bonus stage that is missing and that is a springs bonus stage.  Well, there is no elevators bonus stage either.   But I couldn't think of a way to make those work as bonus stages.  I don't know if it's really worth the effort to.   I stopped adding anything major when I used up my ROM space allotment.   I already went over my romspace a while back and have been busy shrinking/condensing code to get it to start fitting again.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on October 27, 2015, 08:11:59 AM
I've been quiet about DK Remix updates for a few weeks because I've been trying to work out how to get a plug-in board to boot up DK Remix on an unmodified DK board set.
Yesterday, I finally got a hand-wired prototype to boot up the game.   Huge relief to see it working.

I still have a way to go because I'd also like the board to be able to save high scores, let you play original DK ROMs without having to remove it, maybe allow the possibility of supporting more than one extra game ROM, and hopefully allow saving high scores in regular DK too.   Hopefully I can pull that off.

Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: danman123456 on October 27, 2015, 10:41:14 AM
 Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm Kreygasm
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on October 27, 2015, 04:21:12 PM
I've been quiet about DK Remix updates for a few weeks because I've been trying to work out how to get a plug-in board to boot up DK Remix on an unmodified DK board set.
Yesterday, I finally got a hand-wired prototype to boot up the game.   Huge relief to see it working.

I still have a way to go because I'd also like the board to be able to save high scores, let you play original DK ROMs without having to remove it, maybe allow the possibility of supporting more than one extra game ROM, and hopefully allow saving high scores in regular DK too.   Hopefully I can pull that off.

Would be very, very cool to get extra features on there.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I feel that the ability to switch to classic DK might really be more of a requirement of this than a feature. It would be a hassle to have to remove the daughter card to go back to the normal game, and if you put a decent sized EPROM on there, there should be plenty of space for DK.

Geez, maybe you could even throw in those other games that run on DK hardware, like Herbie at the Olympics and that pool one. Or maybe not... :)
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: tilt on October 27, 2015, 04:55:04 PM
I've been quiet about DK Remix updates for a few weeks because I've been trying to work out how to get a plug-in board to boot up DK Remix on an unmodified DK board set.
Yesterday, I finally got a hand-wired prototype to boot up the game.   Huge relief to see it working.

I still have a way to go because I'd also like the board to be able to save high scores, let you play original DK ROMs without having to remove it, maybe allow the possibility of supporting more than one extra game ROM, and hopefully allow saving high scores in regular DK too.   Hopefully I can pull that off.

Would be very, very cool to get extra features on there.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I feel that the ability to switch to classic DK might really be more of a requirement of this than a feature. It would be a hassle to have to remove the daughter card to go back to the normal game, and if you put a decent sized EPROM on there, there should be plenty of space for DK.

Geez, maybe you could even throw in those other games that run on DK hardware, like Herbie at the Olympics and that pool one. Or maybe not... :)
Additionally, I think there would need to be a way to prove that the version of classic DK is exactly the same as normal, as many players would like to submit using this hardware, i'm guessing.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on October 27, 2015, 06:39:01 PM
Yes, my figuring is that nobody wants to have to plug or unplug the board every time they want to switch between normal DK or Remix.

I'm going to do it a bit differently than the D2K board.   I'm not actually going to include normal DK roms at all.   The board is going to switch to the on-board DK PCB ROMs when running normal DK.  If you have the Japanese ROMs, or Ladder cheat ROMs, or whatever... that's what you're going to get.    Hell.. I think maybe if you plugged it into a D2K board, it ought to probably still run and it would switch to D2K instead.

I did more hardware tests today and successfully got it to switch between Remix and on-PCB ROMs.   (Feature not implemented yet or anything, this was a test to see if the functionality actually works.)


I guess the big question would be... How could it prove that it is running normal DK ROMs to the satisfaction of someone scrutinizing the machine during a score submission?   Have a boot up screen report on-board ROM checksums?

And the second big question...  I'd also like to support high score save *in* normal DK.  But again, it won't be running a modified DK ROM to do it.  The board is going to inject the saved score data *without the Z80's knowledge that anything happened at all*.   Is that on it's own, enough to disqualify score submissions?   I'm going to try to include an option to disable this extra feature, even though it won't alter the gameplay in any way as no Z80 program code gets modified (just high score data.)

The board has a microcontroller on it to do this stuff.  It won't be the Z80 saving the high scores.  It won't mess with classic DK gameplay or game code, the microcontroller will run independently and monitor if the Z80 is reading or writing the high score table.

Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: f_symbols on October 28, 2015, 07:07:33 AM
John, you sir are literally a fallen angel <wings>  BibleThump <wings> Thank you so much for all you've done and continue to do for this game/community. Can't fkn wait!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Jonesy on October 28, 2015, 09:59:13 AM
Have to echo what Ethan said

What you're doing here is awesome and I'm definitely grabbing myself some of this. The fact that your circuit board will allow for whatever ROMS the cab has in situ to operate when required is definitely a bonus.

Top work sir!  Kreygasm
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on October 28, 2015, 06:33:32 PM
Aww, thanks :)

I got the microcontroller to detect when the Z80 wrote to a RAM location and know what it wrote..  I think that was the last absolutely essential function needed for high score saving.   So that makes my little prototype hardware-complete.

The next step is to design the PCB layout... and then see how much of a financial hole it'll put me in to get some boards ordered..yay!

There's still a way to go.  I still have to write the microcontroller firmware, then the boot menu after that.  But I think I should be able to get the first boards made by the end of the year.

And after that? who knows.  But the boards will be DKjr, likely DK3, Mario Bros, maybe Crazy Kong compatible and probably some others too if somewhere down the line there's interest in other arcade projects.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: tilt on October 29, 2015, 04:37:09 AM
Wow this is fantastic.  So from what I gather as of now, the whole DK Remix game is running on an eprom chip on the card itself, rather than using any of the original code?  If this is true, this opens up the possibility to easily swap out many different rom hacks and revisions, possibly even DK JR stuff?  I am not entirely sure on that last point, but either way this project is making absolutely insane progress, keep it up sir!!!!!!  :D
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on October 29, 2015, 01:26:23 PM
Sort of, yes.  In order to keep the design small and affordable, the game ROM and save RAM are actually in the microcontroller rather than separate components on the board.   But essentially yes, DK Remix does not use the DK ROMs.

The microcontrollers come in various ROM sizes, and the largest of them would actually be able to hold 7 versions of DK (depending on ROM size - Remix is larger than DK, and some of the space on the chip has to be used for firmware.)

Yes, the board works just fine on DKjr hardware, so if it were loaded up with DKjr ROMs, it could be used to run alternate versions of DKjr too.

But, it can only change program code, not graphics data or sound code.  So, we couldn't actually run Herbie at the Olympics or that Pool game as Chris P joked about.   Stick a DK Remix board into a DKjr. PCB and it'll boot up Remix... but it's going to play with Jr. graphics characters... all mixed up graphically.

Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on October 29, 2015, 05:43:00 PM
Oh, OK, I see what you're saying. It'll be JUST the Z80 code, and the video and sound ROMs are untouched. I could be wrong about this, but I think the D2K kit actually has everything - Z80 code, graphics, and (digital) sounds, all on his one EEPROM, bypassing all the game data on the board completely (I could be wrong).

How are you planning on connecting the add-on board? Will it go in the Z80 socket like D2K, are are you perhaps doing something with the ribbon cables? I ask because you said something about being able to have the D2K kit installed at the same time, so I was trying to picture how that would even work!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on October 29, 2015, 07:47:05 PM
The D2K board just plugs into the Z80 socket, like this one, so in theory you could plug a D2K board into the Z80 socket and then this board into the Z80 socket on the D2K board..  I don't have one, so I can't say for sure if it'll work, but in theory it should be possible if they don't have some sort of addressing conflict...  It'd just be interesting to see if it works.  Boot Remix, and then switch to PCB ROMs and it should then boot D2K.. From there you can boot it's version of regular DK (with high score save).  It's just a an idle curiosity, wondering if it'll work like I think it would.

D2K doesn't change graphics or sound ROMs either.   It re-uses existing graphics in clever ways to make it look like there are new sprites in the game.  Only more elaborate hardware modifications like the Double Donkey Kong PCB modification allow switching of graphics & sound ROMs.  But that is not a simple thing to install as it has to tap into a bunch of different sockets on the PCB, requires soldering and adds wires to send signals to those points.  You have to send your PCB away to get a modification like that.

So, the DK Remix board is going to be simple - just plug it into the Z80 socket.  But it could hold several versions of DK, and also let you run your original PCB ROMs without having to pull it out.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on November 20, 2015, 11:48:47 AM
Well, everything seems to be checking out bit by bit.   I have a hand-made prototype board.  I have a nice PCB design for board production.  I made a nice menu for settings and options.   DK Remix now supports saving scores and extra features like switching games and going back to the menu.  The hardware design allows features like saving scores and switching back to menu even from regular *unmodified* DK PCB ROMs.  (Implementation is super tricky... it's the board that does the tricks because the Z80 is just running normal DK code.)

So, now I have to cough up about 1000$ to get some blank boards made.  Populate and assemble them, and then If I sell 15, I probably break even.

I'm not going to ask for pre-orders or anything.  I don't even have a store, or a business... but the first few boards ought to be available in a month or so.

Fun times ahead.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: WCopeland on November 20, 2015, 12:16:16 PM
Any way I can get a quote on a board, or at least be put on the waiting list? I'd like to set aside the funds to buy.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on November 20, 2015, 02:26:20 PM
It'll probably be 80$ plus whatever it costs to ship.   I'm only going to have parts for 5 boards at first.  The money from the first 5 will go into getting more parts to build more boards, etc..

I'll set aside the first one for you.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: f_symbols on November 20, 2015, 05:32:40 PM
Ill take one as well
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: danman123456 on November 21, 2015, 04:54:18 PM
At this point heck yes. For that price range I would like one as well. :)  BibleThump
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on December 20, 2015, 03:40:11 PM
The PCB boards have been ordered and they should hopefully arrive in a few days.  Hopefully there are no mistakes in the PCBs/design.

If all goes well, the very first ones will be going out by year's end.

In the mean time I've been working on optionally incorporating an extra variation of DK into the same board design - DK Deranged. (The extra hard version of DK that goes beyond internal difficulty 5, with more wild barrels and faster and more firefoxes, etc..)     I'll have to use a larger capacity chip to support the extra game, but it should only add a few bucks to the cost of the board if anyone's interested.

More updates soon when the boards arrive.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: WCopeland on December 20, 2015, 03:42:54 PM
Thanks for the update! Looking forward to news on when I can officially order a pcb :)
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Jonesy on December 21, 2015, 01:53:44 AM
Thanks for the update! Looking forward to news on when I can officially order a pcb :)

Same as that, I'm in for some Remix!!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on December 23, 2015, 08:14:55 AM
Woo!  The boards came in yesterday and I got the very very first one up and running DK Remix late late last night (ok, early early this morning...)   so it looks like the hardware is a-ok and there were no mistakes in the hardware design.

I'll try to get a photo of a board to post up later today.   It looks nice -- well made and professional looking.  And really small.  It has some surface mount components so it's even smaller than a high score kit.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: f_symbols on December 23, 2015, 08:24:00 AM
take my money
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Shnypz on December 23, 2015, 10:17:23 AM
take my money
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on December 23, 2015, 11:45:54 AM
Here's a photo of the board if anyone's curious to see what it looks like.

Soon!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: f_symbols on December 23, 2015, 01:27:45 PM
it's so glorious, congrats again sir on a job well done :)
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Jonesy on December 23, 2015, 01:45:29 PM

Top Job and great skills!  Kreygasm

Awesome effort, can't wait!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on December 23, 2015, 02:44:45 PM
Argh! I'm dying! You are the best sir!

Lotta talk in the CAG community about how so-and-so is gonna do this-or-that (myself included  ;D ), and I love to see that you came through here, and in an impressive timeframe.

Looking forward to this.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on December 23, 2015, 04:30:28 PM
Any chance you could give a real quick overview of the hardware elements?

Looks like only the Z80 is socketed and everything else is soldered, which is fine (if not ideal should there need to be an emergency tweak to the game, or other possibilities ;D ), and I'm just curious what's what here.

But yeah, take my money.  <pacman> <blinky>
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on December 23, 2015, 05:03:29 PM
Thanks guys

What we've got here is a bit different than any other high score or mod kit.   I needed the board to be able to pull off a bunch of tricks - save high scores, save settings, play the original DK ROMs, also play the add-on Remix ROMs, also add high scores *and* the ability to switch back to Remix when running original unmodified DK ROMs, switch between multiple sets of add-on ROMs (the menu is a separate ROM)...etc..

That would have been a lot of hardware on the board.

So this thing is doing something different.  The surface mount chip is a microcontroller and it has the high score and settings memory in it, also the binaries for the boot menu, DK Remix and optionally DK Deranged or even more versions of DK.  It's running it's own program code too while DK's Z80 is running DK or whatnot.   The microcontroller emulates Z80 ROM when it's running Remix.   While normal DK is running, the microcontroller monitors what the Z80 is up to and intercepts when the scores and settings are loaded or saved, even monitors the control panel buttons so it could pull off things like switching between DK and DK Remix.   That means the Z80 can be running unmodified DK ROMs yet we can still have extra features like high score save.

The other 3 chips are some glue circuitry to interface the Z80 and the microcontroller together.

It's brilliant.   As far as I know, it's never been done before...  and I'm taking a big risk doing it because it's never been done before.

If it works brilliantly, it's probable other people's future high score kits are going to copy the concept, maybe even other kinds of arcade, retro gaming or computing projects as well.   We shall see.  It'll be interesting.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: f_symbols on December 23, 2015, 06:10:04 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on December 27, 2015, 11:02:18 AM
I added in some checks in the Remix PCB's firmware to try to detect if it's plugged into something non-standard...
(eg: plugged into a D2K board that is plugged into the DK PCB).

I don't have a D2K board to test this on, but I'm pretty sure this setup would now work properly if someone wants to use both DK Remix *and* D2K in the same cabinet.

Plug the D2K board into the DK PCB Z80 socket, then plug Remix into D2K's Z80 socket.   It should boot up normally.  If Remix is selected as the boot game and game switching is enabled, you can then switch to D2K.   And from D2K you could then switch to it's version of DK.   If you get the DK Remix + DK Deranged version of Remix, that'll be 4 playable versions of DK in your cab without having to unplug anything.

The first person that has D2K and tries it, please let me know if it works.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Capone27 on December 28, 2015, 06:03:19 AM
Maybe I missed it...  If so sorry!  Where do I buy and how much?

I have been lurking here for a long time but joined because of this!

Thanks
Capone
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on December 28, 2015, 10:43:21 AM
I'm still running around like a chicken with it's head cut off getting every aspect of this project sorted out so there's no official way to get them yet, but the very very first boards have been built and some brave souls are on the short list to be the first adopters.  The next set of boards will be built in a couple of weeks when I get parts and I ought to be more organized for getting those into people's hands.

I can add you to a list of people for the 2nd set and I'll send you a message when I'm getting organized.

There are two flavours of the board.    DK Remix+DK Original or DK Remix+DK Deranged+DK Original.
Both add menu selectable options for things like high scores save and free play to all games.

It's going to be 80$ for DK Remix, 90$ for DK Remix/Deranged, plus whatever it's going to cost me to ship.

Deranged is like normal DK but internal difficulty does not plateau at L=05, the game keeps right on increasing in difficulty, things go faster, more than 5 fireballs will appear, etc.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on December 28, 2015, 01:55:36 PM
If you have an interest list, put ChrisP down for a Remix (sans Deranged). I'm fine with being in the second round.

Also, if this is useful to you, I have a D2K installed and will definitely be attempting the D2K sandwich. Very excited that this is possible.

I'm also not beyond putting this into my Junior PCB just to see what happens. :)

Your hardware/MCU sounds very interesting, love it. And I agree that it could be a game-changer.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: f_symbols on December 28, 2015, 02:03:41 PM

I'm also not beyond putting this into my Junior PCB just to see what happens. :)


I'll go ahead and finally test the DK3 pcb and sling it in there as well :)
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Capone27 on December 28, 2015, 03:25:32 PM
I would like to be added to the list!  I have a Dk with Dk2k, Dkjr, Dk3 and a CK all in the same cab with a vector lab switcher.

So I am glad to test anything that you need

I would like to have the deluxe kit!

Thanks
Capone
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: xelnia on December 28, 2015, 03:30:15 PM
Is there any way to add the Pauline version into this mix?
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Capone27 on December 28, 2015, 04:01:29 PM
Is there any way to add the Pauline version into this mix?

That would be cool!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on December 29, 2015, 11:04:08 AM
Thanks everybody.

Yeah, I do think the design is pretty cool.  There's one more thing that it could do - the code in the chip can be updated again in the future.   There's the inconvenience of having to mail the boards back and forth to do that, but it's an option if there is a need to change/fix/update.
Because the chip is a microcontroller, that also means new features could be added without modifying the hardware.   I'm already having thoughts of a future update that might automatically keep track of game statistics in regular Donkey Kong and display them during the "How High" screens (without having to modify DK game ROMs) but that's just an idea percolating for now.

Unfortunately, the Pauline version of DK would not be possible to add because that version requires the graphics ROMs to change rather than just changed program ROMs.

Thanks to all those willing to test it on alternate boards.   I'm curious to find out what happens.
I'm pretty sure the game would technically still run if you plugged it into DKjr or DK3, but the graphics and sounds will turn out all incorrect it'd probably look realllly mixed up... all incorrect colors and graphics tiles.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: jumpman on January 11, 2016, 07:43:40 AM
I can't wait to get my hands on the remix pcb. I apologize if this has already been explained but I'm curious how to switch between the remix game and the original dk game.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on January 11, 2016, 07:56:21 AM
The board has a service menu in which you can select which game to boot into on power up.  And also an option to enable or disable game switching.

It can simply boot up into to whichever game you select as default.
If game switching is enabled, you can also simply hold down the jump button for 4 seconds while attract mode is running (eg: not in the middle of playing a game) and it'll switch to the next game.

On the Remix+DK board it simply alternates between Remix and DK.
On the Remix+Deranged+DK board it alternates between Remix, Deranged and DK.

It even lets you boot like a normal DK first and only go into Remix after doing a game-switch.

I should post some screen shots of the service menu.  Both versions of the board have a slightly different service menu.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: mrvaya on January 11, 2016, 11:47:18 AM
John sir - are this fine gem coming to mame with your approval or do you wish it to be a cab-only thing? Im urging to play the full version but atm am limited to your 2-level demo.

It would be nice with some sort of official statement on this.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on January 11, 2016, 12:06:57 PM
For the time being, it's going to be for authentic DK arcade hardware only.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: mrvaya on January 11, 2016, 12:19:56 PM
Ok John. Not the answer I was hoping for but an understandable one tho... Should you decide otherwise at some point you should make it easy to sent you donations. Ill be happy to donate same amount that you earn on the pcb's for this fine (and perhaps similar future) project(s). Im sure a lot of other people are willing to donate as well.
A big congratulation on the outcome of your work!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: tilt on January 11, 2016, 12:50:56 PM
I would like to add that one of the reasons it is not on mame is because MAMEDEV has to approve the rom for use on the software itself.  It is not necessarily a reason beyond that, just not possible to play it at this point on mame.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: mrvaya on January 11, 2016, 02:26:15 PM
I would like to add that one of the reasons it is not on mame is because MAMEDEV has to approve the rom for use on the software itself.  It is not necessarily a reason beyond that, just not possible to play it at this point on mame.
Ok Tanner. Hope it will be available soon. The fuzz seems to be all about the Remix. Actually I also thinks the Deranged-version sounds very cool. Still havent seen much footage from it tho - except from Ethan streaming it for a short while after playing like nine hours of Remix  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: danman123456 on January 11, 2016, 04:28:38 PM
OMYGERD I got mine. Installing now and hope to stream some soon! :D
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: mrvaya on January 12, 2016, 09:34:37 AM
Go sir go. Get that stream up and running!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on January 18, 2016, 01:10:44 AM
I would make a suggestion here:

For those who do not have DK hardware but want to play this, and/or do not want to wait until an official MAME release, mrvaya gave me an idea. Perhaps you would consider selling "personalized" versions of Remix (like the kind you made for Dean to playtest) in exchange for a donation (whatever amount you think is reasonable) that would go (more parentheses  <Pigger> ) towards development and manufacturing costs?

In other words, just do a MAME version with a name watermark, like Dean's, and sell it with the agreement that it is not to be shared.

That comes with some risks, but you could pick up a few extra bucks for the project this way.

An official MAMEdev release of Remix might take a while. I think part of the "rules" of the MAME project is not to emulate games that are still being commercially sold. There's some sort of freezeout period, not sure how long it is, but it might be years. Of course, if you hand it to them yourself, that might not apply.

I know that Jeff Kulczycki wasn't happy when D2K showed up on MAME. Personally, I doubt that he lost sales as a result, since a person who would buy a D2K board despite it being MAMEd is *necessarily* the same person who already spent many hundreds of dollars on a DK arcade machine, in spite of DK being MAMEd! Your market is arcade enthusiasts, who don't factor in MAME availability in their purchasing decisions. It's actually the safest market I can think of where free availability of a copy of something does not deter sales of the real thing. Kind of like folks who collect records. They don't care that they can download the Beatles white album on mp3 for free on BitTorrent, they want to buy a physical vinyl copy, because they're vinyl enthusiasts.

In my case, the main reason I bought a D2K in the first place is because I was able to get acquainted with it in MAME, and in so doing, decided that I liked it and wanted to own the PCB for my machine. So not only did D2K's MAMEing fail to deter me from buying it, it actually encouraged me to buy it.

Just some stuff to think about.  :)
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: mrvaya on January 18, 2016, 02:17:34 AM
Personalized copies sounds cool! Tell me how much to transfer :)

Chris - no matter what John chooses you should make an article about Remix on your well-respected Donkey Kong blog....
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Capone27 on January 21, 2016, 01:37:30 PM
Watching the Videos....  any eta on Boards?

Sorry to bug but it looks like a ton of fun!

capone
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on January 21, 2016, 03:52:37 PM
Most of the parts have come in but I'm still waiting on some chips to arrive :(

There might be one Remix (without DK Deranged) board in this set that isn't already set aside for someone and/or I can add you to the list of people to contact when a board is available.   I am hoping to be able to build them faster in the future.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Simpsons99 on January 21, 2016, 05:38:34 PM
so you have to order all the parts over seas?
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on January 21, 2016, 06:09:14 PM
Not all of them, but if turnaround is this slow I'll start looking at different suppliers.
One of the big bottlenecks has been PayPal itself.  I couldn't use the money from the first boards sold to buy more parts until 3 weeks later so it's really been slowing me down.

The *next* set of boards won't take as long, and the one after that shorter still.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Capone27 on January 21, 2016, 06:49:37 PM
I will wait for the next set I want the delux set!

Thanks for the offer.  Just let me know when you want paid!

Thanks again
Capone
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Simpsons99 on February 02, 2016, 08:44:22 PM
made my payment for my remix kit tonight ..   I should be entering the Remix Score Board Soon  :o
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: aarontruitt on February 03, 2016, 11:14:05 AM
Is there any word yet on if regular DK scores will be accepted on the DKF HSL with the Remix kit installed? Thanks.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: jumpman on February 03, 2016, 11:29:33 AM
I have scores submitted to TG and DKF high score lists with the D2k kit installed. I don't see how this would be different. That is just a guess though.
I got my shipping info for the DK remix board. I will try to install it on top of the D2k daughter board and see if it all works together.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Simpsons99 on February 03, 2016, 12:23:08 PM
I have scores submitted to TG and DKF high score lists with the D2k kit installed. I don't see how this would be different. That is just a guess though.
I got my shipping info for the DK remix board. I will try to install it on top of the D2k daughter board and see if it all works together.
  I will be trying the same thing when I get mine
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: jumpman on February 06, 2016, 04:48:41 PM
I installed the remix pcb on the D2K pcb today. It booted to the remix menu first, I went through the prompts then it booted to the D2k menu. After the D2k menu it booted directly to the dk pcb roms, which is what I selected on the remix pcb menu. It was nice that it still shows my top 5 high scores. You are able to cycle between DK, D2K, remix, deranged by holding the jump button down for a few seconds. I'm not sure if it's related but the graphics have a slight jitter. The monitor was recently re capped including the big filter caps. I will try to reseat chips and I will plug in my back up stock dk pcb to trouble shoot. Great job on this remix project it's going to be fun.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on February 06, 2016, 06:14:08 PM
Nice.  I'm glad it seems to be working with D2K.  Please do let me know of whatever issues/details that arise.  I really did have just theoretical guesses as to how make it D2K compatible as I don't have a D2K board myself.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Simpsons99 on February 06, 2016, 06:21:08 PM
I would love to see a pic of it installed to the dk2 board
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: jumpman on February 06, 2016, 08:01:39 PM
 Here is the double stack.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on February 07, 2016, 12:51:27 AM
This is what I experienced today when I attempted the D2K sandwich:
http://www.twitch.tv/chrisp_kreme/v/41673912 (http://www.twitch.tv/chrisp_kreme/v/41673912)

I suppose there are several possibilities for what went wrong, but the prevailing theory seems to be that I just didn't have snug connections between the three boards.

So I removed D2K and just put Remix in. All is well.

I'll try the sandwich again some other time, because I'm not finished with D2K by any means and I enjoy that game as well (for what it is), but now everything is back together in the cab so I won't be messing with it for a few days at least. :)
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Simpsons99 on February 07, 2016, 10:00:52 AM
I heard someone else's dk2 worked with remix just fine ..

Mine will be here in a couple of days
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Simpsons99 on February 08, 2016, 07:13:38 PM
I got my remix kit today
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Shnypz on February 09, 2016, 03:16:43 PM
I got my remix kit today

Got mine today. After a few "oh fuck did I just bend a pin" moments", I got the chip and board in correctly. Everything is running great.  Kreygasm
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: jumpman on February 10, 2016, 07:53:25 AM
Update: After re seating chips I still had a graphics issue. The image was jittery. I removed the D2k and remix pcb and image was perfect. I installed only the remix pcb and image was perfect but I couldn't get it to work with both d2k and remix. I will install the D2k kit on my back up board and be done with it. Thanks again to sock master for making the remix pcb.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Simpsons99 on February 10, 2016, 10:04:42 AM
Ty for the update.  I think I will do same thing
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on February 10, 2016, 10:32:56 AM
Hmm, I guess the best we can say for now would be that it may work fine with D2K, but mileage may vary.

Perhaps the jitter is a power issue?  Maybe having two boards plugged simultaneously puts more stress on the power supply?

Thanks for the updates.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on February 11, 2016, 05:59:11 PM
That's actually a good theory. I wonder if it would make a difference if one were to use a modern switcher, rather than the Nintendo PS?

As I've said though, I was surprised at the idea that this would even work at all, so I'm not disappointed that it doesn't always work for everyone. I'll give it another shot at some point. I wonder if people with the 4-board stacks are having better results?

It was mentioned that the Jump button can switch from Remix to D2K, then from D2K to PCB, then back to Remix. Did I hear that correctly? I was under the impression that once you switched to D2K, you were stuck.

Also John, you mentioned a Reset header on the DK PCB. I haven't pulled out my PCB yet (moving the cab is a pain), but looking at pics, I don't see it. Could you perhaps post a pic of where that header is?

I'm also curious how the heck you're able to get Free Play to work when running from the PCB ROMs, though I did notice that the green "CREDIT" text is not there at all when the PCB is set to Free Play.

The other thing I wanted to mention is my concern that somebody will dump your game from the Remix PCB and it will be MAMEd before you intend it to be. I've thought about it some more and for a few reasons I kinda like that it isn't MAMEd yet. As for you, once it's out on MAME, it can never go back, so until then you have more options and control over it. I don't know enough about your hardware setup to know whether it's even possible to dump the game, so maybe you're safe for now.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: jumpman on February 11, 2016, 06:23:52 PM
That's actually a good theory. I wonder if it would make a difference if one were to use a modern switcher, rather than the Nintendo PS?

As I've said though, I was surprised at the idea that this would even work at all, so I'm not disappointed that it doesn't always work for everyone. I'll give it another shot at some point. I wonder if people with the 4-board stacks are having better results?

It was mentioned that the Jump button can switch from Remix to D2K, then from D2K to PCB, then back to Remix. Did I hear that correctly? I was under the impression that once you switched to D2K, you were stuck.

Also John, you mentioned a Reset header on the DK PCB. I haven't pulled out my PCB yet (moving the cab is a pain), but looking at pics, I don't see it. Could you perhaps post a pic of where that header is?

I'm also curious how the heck you're able to get Free Play to work when running from the PCB ROMs, though I did notice that the green "CREDIT" text is not there at all when the PCB is set to Free Play.

The other thing I wanted to mention is my concern that somebody will dump your game from the Remix PCB and it will be MAMEd before you intend it to be. I've thought about it some more and for a few reasons I kinda like that it isn't MAMEd yet. As for you, once it's out on MAME, it can never go back, so until then you have more options and control over it. I don't know enough about your hardware setup to know whether it's even possible to dump the game, so maybe you're safe for now.


Edit: sorry messed up the quote.
I can clarify that yes, Once you get to the D2K menu you are stuck there.

I will test some voltages on my pcb with and without the remix and D2k kit to see if it is a power supply issue. That is a good idea that if you had a newer style power supply you would be able to adjust the voltage much easier than the original Nintendo ps.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on February 11, 2016, 11:00:57 PM
That's actually a good theory. I wonder if it would make a difference if one were to use a modern switcher, rather than the Nintendo PS?
I would be very interested in the results from a test like this.

I don't actually have a DK PS.  I use a modern power supply on my test bench.
I don't have a D2K board either, but I did test the concept of it's stacking functionality by stacking two Remix boards on top of each other and testing that the game switcher did switch from the top board down to the middle board.


Quote
Also John, you mentioned a Reset header on the DK PCB. I haven't pulled out my PCB yet (moving the cab is a pain), but looking at pics, I don't see it. Could you perhaps post a pic of where that header is?
I'm going to take a photo and post it up tomorrow.


Quote
I'm also curious how the heck you're able to get Free Play to work when running from the PCB ROMs, though I did notice that the green "CREDIT" text is not there at all when the PCB is set to Free Play.
This is almost at the level of a magic trick, actually.

The Remix board has a microcontroller on it, essentially a whole new CPU that is capable of performing sleight of hand operations onto the Z80.

I've programmed the microcontroller to monitor the Z80's data and address bus, and when the Z80 is reading certain addresses, say to check for coins... it is able to substitute new values onto the bus.  Essentially we're convincing the Z80 that something happened when it didn't, or vice versa.

It would have been too much trouble to hack in something entirely new, like a text indicator saying "FREE PLAY"... well, it would be possible, but the microcontroller would have to do an awful lot of sleight of hand to pull that off, so it simply makes the Z80 skip the credits display instead.

The really cool thing is that free play will still work no matter which version of DK ROMs you have on your PCB.


Quote
The other thing I wanted to mention is my concern that somebody will dump your game from the Remix PCB and it will be MAMEd before you intend it to be. I've thought about it some more and for a few reasons I kinda like that it isn't MAMEd yet. As for you, once it's out on MAME, it can never go back, so until then you have more options and control over it. I don't know enough about your hardware setup to know whether it's even possible to dump the game, so maybe you're safe for now.
This is a big concern for me.  I was just about at the point of breaking even on the initial costs of making the boards, but I'm in the process of doing something expensive that's setting that back a bit.  (The big reveal of what and why will come in about 2 weeks, I think.  But it's for good reasons, and it'll benefit everyone who has a Remix board.)

Technically, it is possible to dump the code if someone were really determined.  A full and proper MAME emulation, though would probably be a bit of a challenge because of the nature of the dual processor interaction so I'm hoping that buys me a bit of a grace period.

But I agree, I think it's nice that you have to play the game for real, on real hardware, without save states, without tool assists or program code analysis or whatnot.  This makes is a little more special, more mystical.

And I think the hardware is cool.  There is actually a lot of untapped potential in that hardware.  The way the free-play function for DK works is just a hint of what's possible.  It's a shame I couldn't spend forever taking full advantage of it, but maybe some future revision of the board firmware will open up additional special features.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on February 12, 2016, 09:33:12 AM
Here's a photo of the test point peg for adding a reset button/line to a DK PCB.

A momentary contact between that peg and ground will reset the board.  It's just like a power cycle except you don't lose memory from lack of power, so the RUG pattern simply keeps displaying whatever was still in memory (but upside down.)

(http://users.axess.com/twilight/sock/dkremix/dk%20reset.jpg)
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on February 12, 2016, 02:28:10 PM
Ha, wow, right there the whole time! Thanks.

Well I know what my second coin switch is gonna be for now...

Somebody be sure and tell  <Tim>
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Simpsons99 on February 12, 2016, 03:35:01 PM
ok installing the remix did not go very well at all ..

first I tried removing the dk2 kit without removing the pcb from the machine .. nope

Then I thought lets take a quick pic of the wiring .. pics turned out like crap !

I quickly unplugged everything I thought and tried pulling away the pcb.. I found another black cable on the back of the pcb..

got that off the pcb.

then tried pulling the pcb from the machine and then noticed the pcb was wired into the cab !

So I had to try and rewire the machine ..  I tried finding all the right wires for the right spots since my pics sucked !

I am unsure about the one on the back of the pcb .

I powered up the machine and I got the noise of start up but nothing on screen ..  I realized no neck glow coming from monitor ..

I did not get to install this remix kit .. I just wanted the game to power back up..

does anyone have detailed pics of there dk wired up? I would love to see them
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Jonesy on February 13, 2016, 02:37:49 AM
I'm a bit miffed here Brian.

Can you take a few pics so we can see what you have?

All the connectors will only match their particular female.

As for the monitor having no glow, check the 2 pin power plug is all the way home on the block to the left under the pcb, there are two, one for marquee light and one for monitor.

As for you sound issue, trace the speaker wire from the amp to the connector(which then runs to the speaker) and give it a good shove, these are prone to failure.





Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Jonesy on February 13, 2016, 02:43:05 AM
Ha, wow, right there the whole time! Thanks.

Well I know what my second coin switch is gonna be for now...


Wow! Me also, that's pretty handy!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Simpsons99 on February 18, 2016, 04:29:43 PM
update   when into game room this afternoon to try install  the Remix Kit .

I was still unable to get the dk2 kit out of my dk pcb ..

I might have to try something different .. Maybe my spear dk pcb and get another z80 chip ..
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: blackraven15 on February 18, 2016, 07:40:39 PM
I was thinking today for those of you who have D2K and Remix that having spare z80s around so that each daughter board has its own z80 might help keep wear and tear down.

We re-ordered a bunch and will have them available whenever they get in for future remix orders as an add on option *shakes fist at slooooow shipping*
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Simpsons99 on February 18, 2016, 08:04:25 PM
so if I am forced to use this other dk pcb .. I will have to play it . Maybe in dkjr or dk3
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Simpsons99 on February 19, 2016, 01:48:53 PM
here is a picture of the wire that's hardwired to a cap on my Donkey Kong pcb.


https://www.facebook.com/BrianBigbirdhaterallen/photos/a.635498413217034.1073741828.635476293219246/743323992434475/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/BrianBigbirdhaterallen/photos/a.635498413217034.1073741828.635476293219246/743323992434475/?type=3&theater)
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Simpsons99 on February 20, 2016, 10:21:55 AM
So I heard for the first time last night .. I am not going to get a Million points on Donkey Kong because I started Playing Remix .

 :o I play thousands of games a Year .

Donkey Kong Is just 1 of them .
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: xelnia on February 20, 2016, 11:25:03 AM
So I heard for the first time last night .. I am not going to get a Million points on Donkey Kong because I started Playing Remix .

 :o I play thousands of games a Year .

Donkey Kong Is just 1 of them .

I don't think Remix will have any effect on your ability to get 1 million on DK. :)
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: KIG666 on February 20, 2016, 12:34:28 PM
So I heard for the first time last night .. I am not going to get a Million points on Donkey Kong because I started Playing Remix .

 :o I play thousands of games a Year .

Donkey Kong Is just 1 of them .

LOL I never said you would not be able to score 1M after you start to play remix  <thefinger>

It was in allen's stream and all I said was something like *you will get the 1M before brian and that's the most important thing*

You said you are funny and I said no it's true remix will mess up your timing and allen will hit 1M before you :P

Actually I just helped allen with the fight talk there cause he was a bit too frustrated for my taste...  FailFish

It was meant as a joke but hey if I think about it again why not ?  <stirpot>

You both never really had deep two hammer games so far, heck your PB is just a few K's over allen's. Ok you both have different playing style, you play a bit saver but that's it.

I still laugh about your natural line, was so funny made my day  ROFL

If you would be really a naturally gifted person with awesome gaming/DK skill you would already have scored 1M years ago since you play DK since decades at least you said that on marp lol

Anyway this was just a chat in allens stream so Come off it  <Allen>
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: ChrisP on February 20, 2016, 01:02:47 PM
 <popcorn>
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Pinballer on March 31, 2016, 01:51:37 AM
Can you please add me to the list for a board please?
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on March 31, 2016, 08:41:08 AM
I'm caught up with boards so there's no waiting list at this moment.

Just send an email to donkeykongremix@gmail.com stating which model of the board you're interested in (DK Remix or DK Remix+DK Deranged) and I'll get back to you with more details.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: dd0ck on April 02, 2016, 07:28:33 PM
So my buddy Joe Krajnyak is going to start selling these kits stateside...cheaper/faster shipping...

More info on KLOV here:  http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=372402 (http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=372402)

Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: blackraven15 on April 03, 2016, 06:11:00 PM
Certainly cheaper and faster for those of you in the good ole USA :) Still worth asking us if you live up in Canada though :)

You know it maaay be slower shipping but you get the privilege of ordering straight from the creator :p  Kappa
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: HighScoreSaves on April 03, 2016, 06:14:20 PM
So my buddy Joe Krajnyak is going to start selling these kits stateside...cheaper/faster shipping...

More info on KLOV here:  [url]http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=372402[/url] ([url]http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=372402[/url])


Thank you Dan! I appreciate it.

As the post above me states, the US shipping is a tad bit faster through me, due to no customs. You can order directly from here - http://www.highscoresaves.com/high-score-save-kit/john-kowalski-donkey-kong-remix.html (http://www.highscoresaves.com/high-score-save-kit/john-kowalski-donkey-kong-remix.html)

Thanks for looking. Going to be some fun stuff here it seems! ;)
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: HighScoreSaves on April 05, 2016, 07:24:27 PM
Thank you for the orders guys! The Remix is a blast...Best score I can put up today was 80,200...not too good.  :P
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: marky_d on April 06, 2016, 01:56:08 PM
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1Y07-YMj5c&feature=youtu.be#)
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: WCopeland on April 06, 2016, 02:09:15 PM
Very cool... congrats John 👍
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: blackraven15 on April 06, 2016, 03:00:16 PM
I LOVE it!!

So happy the first review, how to and history are from fellow Canuks :)

You did an amazing job!

*happy dances*
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: tilt on April 07, 2016, 12:45:58 PM
Very well done review!  This is a great way to ease this game into the main market
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: DadsGlasses on April 12, 2016, 10:11:01 AM
Can't wait for my DK Remix board to arrive. I took a little break from DK and submitting scores, but this Remix has sucked me back in. Can't wait to try it!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: blackraven15 on April 12, 2016, 11:22:26 AM
Can't wait for my DK Remix board to arrive. I took a little break from DK and submitting scores, but this Remix has sucked me back in. Can't wait to try it!

I totally understand that sentiment ^_^

I never had any desire to play DK ever and now I'm trying to obtain a 6 diget score on Remix to submit (I never would have thunk it lol) :P

I hope remix clears customs quickly for you!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: DadsGlasses on April 12, 2016, 04:45:21 PM
Can't wait for my DK Remix board to arrive. I took a little break from DK and submitting scores, but this Remix has sucked me back in. Can't wait to try it!

I totally understand that sentiment ^_^

I never had any desire to play DK ever and now I'm trying to obtain a 6 diget score on Remix to submit (I never would have thunk it lol) :P

I hope remix clears customs quickly for you!

Me too. Any idea how long it usually takes?  When should I expect to receive it?
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: blackraven15 on April 12, 2016, 06:18:29 PM
Can't wait for my DK Remix board to arrive. I took a little break from DK and submitting scores, but this Remix has sucked me back in. Can't wait to try it!

I totally understand that sentiment ^_^

I never had any desire to play DK ever and now I'm trying to obtain a 6 diget score on Remix to submit (I never would have thunk it lol) :P

I hope remix clears customs quickly for you!

Me too. Any idea how long it usually takes?  When should I expect to receive it?

Customs seems to to differ from country to country and even from state to state, if you verify your e-mail attached with your paypal there should have been a notification with your tracking number.

The postal service estimates that it ought to be there by the end of the week however we have noticed that this isn't always the case.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: HighScoreSaves on April 12, 2016, 09:58:11 PM
Customs can be a funny thing. Think of it like a cap shoot. ;)
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Sock Master on April 13, 2016, 10:29:19 AM
Customs can be a funny thing. Think of it like a cap shoot. ;)

For what it's worth, Joe, we actually do send inquiries your way, especially if they're in a rush.  We've never had an actual customs issue and we typically get boards to U.S. customers within 4 to 8 days.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: Shnypz on April 13, 2016, 10:38:24 AM
Customs can be a funny thing. Think of it like a cap shoot. ;)

For what it's worth, Joe, we actually do send inquiries your way, especially if they're in a rush.  We've never had an actual customs issue and we typically get boards to U.S. customers within 4 to 8 days.

It was pretty quick for me at least. Once the tracking was available online (a day after Sock sent me the tracking #), it claimed the ETA was a week out. 2 days later, it was in my mailbox. I'm located in RI.
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: blackraven15 on April 13, 2016, 03:53:41 PM
Customs can be a funny thing. Think of it like a cap shoot. ;)

For what it's worth, Joe, we actually do send inquiries your way, especially if they're in a rush.  We've never had an actual customs issue and we typically get boards to U.S. customers within 4 to 8 days.

Customer service is very important to us and if sending a client to High Score Saves is the best option for them we do so. Having other people supply Remix is indeed 100% a step to make things more convenient for people that are outside of Canada.

That being said if some one does inquire with us directly we do take the time to answer their questions and needs.

Being professional and courteous is something that is very important to both John and I, in public, in forum, on social media or in private.

There really is no need for this supposed competition, all we want are people happy with their new game and we will take what ever steps are needed to assure that!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: HighScoreSaves on April 13, 2016, 05:29:14 PM
Customs can be a funny thing. Think of it like a cap shoot. ;)

For what it's worth, Joe, we actually do send inquiries your way, especially if they're in a rush.  We've never had an actual customs issue and we typically get boards to U.S. customers within 4 to 8 days.

That's worth everything! I was stating that customs can be a crap shoot. I've had items held for 45 days, others zipped right through. It's tough on the waiting end for some, especially if you have been unlucky to have it sit for over a month, such as I have. That was from China, so it's a whole different animal, absolutely nothing to do with this topic.

BTW, has a world class player put up a good score yet on either Deranged or Remix?
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: blackraven15 on April 13, 2016, 07:55:40 PM
Ethan Daniels got the first Kill-screen and set the bar pretty high for a high score. Dean Saglio has been working on a score as well.

There is a thread for submitting scores here: http://donkeykongforum.com/index.php?topic=1536.0 (http://donkeykongforum.com/index.php?topic=1536.0)
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: HighScoreSaves on April 14, 2016, 05:52:52 AM
Ethan Daniels got the first Kill-screen and set the bar pretty high for a high score. Dean Saglio has been working on a score as well.

There is a thread for submitting scores here: [url]http://donkeykongforum.com/index.php?topic=1536.0[/url] ([url]http://donkeykongforum.com/index.php?topic=1536.0[/url])


Oh boy! That is amazing. I think I need to play a little more... ;D

It would be great to watch a live stream of someone that good playing...off to Google and search. Unless it's in the other thread already. Wowza!
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: raulito on January 05, 2018, 03:22:54 PM
I put together a DK Remix demo of two more boards; the reverse barrels stage and the alternate cement/pie stage.

I'm mostly curious to hear if the cement stage is fair or unfair.    I think the rest of the stages in the game are pretty well balanced.

Yes, the new cement stage is more random because the fireballs can spawn in 4 places.   No, the spawn points are not as easy to control and even then it's never 100%, but the hammers should be good for clearing the way.   I'm curious how well the randomness plays out.

You can get the 2nd demo here:
[url]http://users.axess.com/twilight/sock/dkremix/dkrdemob.zip[/url] ([url]http://users.axess.com/twilight/sock/dkremix/dkrdemob.zip[/url])

Thanks!


"Not Found
The requested URL /twilight/sock/dkremix/dkrdemob.zip was not found on this server.

Apache/2.0.63 (CentOS) Server at users.axess.com Port 80"
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: blackraven15 on January 05, 2018, 05:20:55 PM
I put together a DK Remix demo of two more boards; the reverse barrels stage and the alternate cement/pie stage.

I'm mostly curious to hear if the cement stage is fair or unfair.    I think the rest of the stages in the game are pretty well balanced.

Yes, the new cement stage is more random because the fireballs can spawn in 4 places.   No, the spawn points are not as easy to control and even then it's never 100%, but the hammers should be good for clearing the way.   I'm curious how well the randomness plays out.

You can get the 2nd demo here:
[url]http://users.axess.com/twilight/sock/dkremix/dkrdemob.zip[/url] ([url]http://users.axess.com/twilight/sock/dkremix/dkrdemob.zip[/url])

The Demos were eventually taken down off John`s website. I *think* one of the two demos made it into mame but the other did not.

Thanks!


"Not Found
The requested URL /twilight/sock/dkremix/dkrdemob.zip was not found on this server.

Apache/2.0.63 (CentOS) Server at users.axess.com Port 80"
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: smf on February 16, 2018, 07:57:35 AM
"Not Found
The requested URL /twilight/sock/dkremix/dkrdemob.zip was not found on this server.

Apache/2.0.63 (CentOS) Server at users.axess.com Port 80"

Does anyone still have a copy of the file?
Title: Re: Donkey Kong Remixed
Post by: bokkendo on February 17, 2018, 12:22:03 AM
Im trying to fing the z80 on my 4 board set. I have installed the dk jr one on my 2board set bu im not sure where the z80 is on the 4 board can you help?